Out of town 2022-23

[folatre]

Phantom penalty on Barkov to end regulation tied 2-2. It is hard to believe in the era of two refs that such an obvious non-penalty gets 'interpreted' as being a trip or hook.

And the Panthers should be worried because their penalty kill is one of the primary reasons they are half way to getting swept in the Finals.

[jkr]

I didn't see that call on Barkov but I felt he was victimized on a call late in the 2nd that led to the 2nd Vegas goal. He was jockeying for position and shoved the defender from behind, the kind of play seen in every game. Im sure that when defenders feel the stick on their back, the instinct is to "sell" it. In this case the refs bought it .

In 10 seasons the most PIM Barkov has had in a year is 18. He's a Lady Byng winner and a Selke winner. He's defensively responsible & plays the right way. For him to get called twice in crucial situations makes little sense.

[Willie Dog]

The league wants Vegas to win the cup... it's the exposure they are craving...

[seventeen]

Jun 9, 2023 14:56:49 GMT -5 jkr said:

I didn't see that call on Barkov but I felt he was victimized on a call late in the 2nd that led to the 2nd Vegas goal. He was jockeying for position and shoved the defender from behind, the kind of play seen in every game. Im sure that when defenders feel the stick on their back, the instinct is to "sell" it. In this case the refs bought it .

In 10 seasons the most PIM Barkov has had in a year is 18. He's a Lady Byng winner and a Selke winner. He's defensively responsible & plays the right way. For him to get called twice in crucial situations makes little sense.

Some of these examples might well be justified as "play on", but the Panthers have gotten away with so much, so often, that I don't care if they get a phantom call or 10. It still isn't enough as long as Gudas is playing for them.

[Willie Dog]

Bennett should be suspended for slew footing Hill in the crease with 5 seconds left in the game, what a douche move... and tkajerk is also a douche for his cry baby antics at the end of the game

[folatre]

Well, Vegas was vastly superior to Florida in the Finals. I really do not like their main protagonists all that much, but credit to them for being a strong group with a willingness to defend first.

[seventeen]

Florida is a mediocre team that benefited from hot goalies and liberal officiating. That annoys me greatly and will do so even more on June 28th.

[Boston_Habs]

Well deserved win for the Knights and certainly not a fluke as that franchise has done just about everything right since inception EXCEPT the draft!

Such a unique team building example but it’s crazy that pretty much all their best players were acquired in the expansion draft (Marchessault, Karlsson, Theodore), trades (Stone, Eichel, Stephenson) and UFA (Pietrangelo).

Not exactly how you draw it up. Hitting on good players in the expansion draft really helped and it looks like Seattle has done well too. Trades can be hard to pull off successfully where you come out ahead in the deal but Vegas has done that too.

The draft is still hugely important but it’s not sufficient or in some cases even necessary to build a winner if you do everything else right.

[madhabber]

If you're going to pull off good trades, it helps to have some good prospects to to trade. And that's another reason to draft the best player available. They can't all play, but you can ship out a few to get pieces you need.

[seventeen]

Jun 14, 2023 10:01:30 GMT -5 madhabber said:

If you're going to pull off good trades, it helps to have some good prospects to to trade. And that's another reason to draft the best player available. They can't all play, but you can ship out a few to get pieces you need.

Their scouting has indeed been hit and miss, but they hit well in their first draft. In order, Cody Glass, Nick Suzuki, Erik Brannstrom and Nicolas Hague. While none are still with the team, they all played a role in trades, not all of which turned out well. Glass (now that he's improving in Buffalo) for Nolan Patrick was a loss. The Pacioretty Suzuki deal was not as bad as Habs fans portray. Patches played very well for them, and for a guy who was relatively healthy while a Hab, to suddenly develop injury issues, was bad luck. Suzuki has a lot of promise, but still hasn't broken 66 points, a dependable result for Pacioretty. Still, no one would trade one for the other today. Brannstrom helped them get Stone.

What Vegas did do effectively was identify they needed an elite centre and an elite dman, neither of which they had. Pietrangelo came via free agency (I wonder if having no state tax helped there?) and they traded for Eichel. Voila....add some unexpected elite goaltending from career backups and there's your cup. A little better goaltending from Edmonton and none of that happens. Or some less than alien goaltending from Bobrovsky and maybe Vegas is playing the Leafs instead of Florida. It helps to play a team that just sneaked into the playoffs, and not from having an injury plagued season. They aren't even the odds on favourites for next year...already.

[Cranky]

Funny thing...

At the point they were traded or signed, I wanted Bennet, Reinhart and Montour.

Bennet and Reihart were traded for less then their value. Montour was a 3.5 million right handed bargain.

What the hell do I know...

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Jun 14, 2023 14:54:02 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Funny thing...

At the point they were traded or signed, I wanted Bennet, Reinhart and Montour.

Bennet and Reihart were traded for less then their value. Montour was a 3.5 million right handed bargain.

What the hell do I know...

Measured by Stanley Cups.
I’m getting older and might be running out of time. Wendy to Las Vegas and watched the parade on the Strip and Belagio. Would have preferred it on Peel and Ste Catherine. Definitely not on Younge and Bloor. Vegas sure knows how to put on a show. Wild crowds and more cops, cop cars and machine guns than in all of Canada.

[Willie Dog]

Jun 18, 2023 13:29:07 GMT -5 Habs_fan_in_LA said:

Jun 14, 2023 14:54:02 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Funny thing...

At the point they were traded or signed, I wanted Bennet, Reinhart and Montour.

Bennet and Reihart were traded for less then their value. Montour was a 3.5 million right handed bargain.

What the hell do I know...

Measured by Stanley Cups.
I’m getting older and might be running out of time. Wendy to Las Vegas and watched the parade on the Strip and Belagio. Would have preferred it on Peel and Ste Catherine. Definitely not on Younge and Bloor. Vegas sure knows how to put on a show. Wild crowds and more cops, cop cars and machine guns than in all of Canada.

Gotta admit, the knights know how to put on a show

[CentreHice]

Just goes to show...it can be done fairly quickly...without league-leaders in scoring.

Knights' team scoring

1. Eichel--66 pts. in 67 games.
2. Stephenson--65 pts. in 81 games.
3. Marchessault--57 pts. in 76 games.

Was anyone expecting Florida GM, Bill Zito, to be nominated for the GM of the Year award?

Then again, was anyone expecting the same re: Marc Bergevin in 2021?

Both 16th place finishes who enjoyed great goaltending and clutch scoring....only to fizzle in the Finals.


Are there more examples of a "16th to the Finals" GM being nominated?

[seventeen]

We know what happened to the 2021 Habs. I wonder what will happen to the 2024 Panthers? I wonder how may were on turbo painkillers? I wonder how much permanent damage was done to some of them? Stay tuned for the continuing saga of "The great GM's of the Year".

[Boston_Habs]

Jun 18, 2023 18:58:19 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

Just goes to show...it can be done fairly quickly...without league-leaders in scoring.

Knights' team scoring

1. Eichel--66 pts. in 67 games.
2. Stephenson--65 pts. in 81 games.
3. Marchessault--57 pts. in 76 games.

The underlying numbers for Vegas don't scream Cup contender. much less Stanley Cup winner.

Goals For: 14th, Goals Allowed: 11th, PP: 18th, PK: 19th, Regulation Wins: 7th.... pretty average across the board yet they finished with 111 points and top seed in the West.

Hard to extrapolate too much other there must have been more underlying consistency to their play and production to the point where they weren't blowing teams out but were consistently winning. Interesting though that 9 of their 16 playoff wins were by 3 goals or more so they were pretty dominant in the playoffs.

The other thing to add, which underscores the point earlier, is Vegas has been a solid team for the past 6 years, with great bang for their payroll, good players at key positions (Eichel, Pietrangelo, great secondary guys and role players). This Cup is the result of 6 years of overall excellent play so it's hard to just look at this past season. They have been good for a while and fully earned this Cup.

[Willie Dog]

Jun 19, 2023 9:09:07 GMT -5 Boston_Habs said:

Jun 18, 2023 18:58:19 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

Just goes to show...it can be done fairly quickly...without league-leaders in scoring.

Knights' team scoring

1. Eichel--66 pts. in 67 games.
2. Stephenson--65 pts. in 81 games.
3. Marchessault--57 pts. in 76 games.

The underlying numbers for Vegas don't scream Cup contender. much less Stanley Cup winner.

Goals For: 14th, Goals Allowed: 11th, PP: 18th, PK: 19th, Regulation Wins: 7th.... pretty average across the board yet they finished with 111 points and top seed in the West.

Hard to extrapolate too much other there must have been more underlying consistency to their play and production to the point where they weren't blowing teams out but were consistently winning. Interesting though that 9 of their 16 playoff wins were by 3 goals or more so they were pretty dominant in the playoffs.

The other thing to add, which underscores the point earlier, is Vegas has been a solid team for the past 6 years, with great bang for their payroll, good players at key positions (Eichel, Pietrangelo, great secondary guys and role players). This Cup is the result of 6 years of overall excellent play so it's hard to just look at this past season. They have been good for a while and fully earned this Cup.

They had to learn how to win a cup, it takes time and luck that things fall into place.

[seventeen]

They got rid of a key guy who tends to choke in pressure situations, (cough, MAF, cough).

The whole thing for Vegas is really simple. They had the elite guys in the two key positions and then they got great goaltending from completely unexpected sources at certain key games in the playoffs. If Stuart Skinner is just a little better, we might be celebrating the first Canadian Cup in 30 years.

Game by Game

1) both Skinner and Brossoit sucked big time with save percentages of .848 and .852 respectively. Vegas wins
2) Skinner is hot at .968, Brossoit is not at .844. Hill replaces Brossoit, faces 2 shots, stops both. Oilers win
3) Broissoit lets in 3 goals on 4 shots. Hill takes over, doesnt allow a goal. Skinner does an .826, is replaced by Campbell who makes 9 out of 10 saves, but Skinner did too much damage. Vegas wins.
4) Oilers roar back and tie series. Skinner stops 25 of 26, .962. Hill had .879, but Cassidy's not letting Brossoit anywhere near the net until Hill goes .500
5) Turning point game. Skinner goes .818 before Woodcroft replaces him with Campbell who stops 9 of 9. Career backup Hill goes .914, which is average, but good enough given the sieve at the other end
6) Big decision and Woodcroft makes the wrong one. Campbell warms the bench, Oilers double the shots on Vegas 40 to 22, but Skinner goes .765 until Campbell replaces him but it's too late. Hill puts up .950 and an arguably better 'team' goes by the wayside due to weakness at one position, or one bad call by the coach. If, if, if. Is Vegas really a deserving team? In some ways, and in others they have to thank that lucky horseshoe.

Hill, a UFA, may get a good payday out of his performance, but caveat emptor. I wouldn't pay him more than $1MM to be my backup, period.

[Tankdriver]

I was screaming for the Oilers to put in Campbell many times in the Vegas series. You could tell Skinner didn't have it. Alas, that was all she wrote.

[CentreHice]

Great points, guys.

I also think a strong, tough coach like Cassidy--as a FRESH voice in Vegas--may have been exactly what the Knights needed.

That's one consistent, cohesive season.

Must've been quite the experience for Bruins' fans to witness not only an epic 1st Round collapse, but also their former coach go on to win it all.

[Boston_Habs]

Jun 19, 2023 14:22:58 GMT -5 seventeen said:

If, if, if. Is Vegas really a deserving team? In some ways, and in others they have to thank that lucky horseshoe.

The 30th anniversary of the 1993 team (Good golly, that's a long time ago!) is in the media. Plenty of good fortune in that run.

Derek Jeter used to say "the best team doesn't always win, but the hottest team does." That applies more in baseball where there are/were fewer post-season teams so all of them are really good. I would say in hockey, the best team doesn't always win but "one of the best teams" usually does.

You could argue Edmonton was a better team than Vegas this year, the underlying metrics would support it, but Vegas was certainly one of the better teams and has been for a while. They definitely benefited from some good luck but that happens most if not all the time on the road to a title.

That's why you need a really good team that is knocking on the door every year. It took Detroit a few years to get past Colorado and New Jersey before finally breaking through in 1997. Tampa needed several whacks at the pinata, including that shocking first round sweep at the hands of Columbus in 2019, before they got their titles in 2020 and 2021.

I agree better goaltending and Edmonton probably advances and maybe wins it all. That's why you build a team to create a solid 3-5 year window because there will inevitably be a year or two where you "should have" or "could have" won, but didn't because it's really freaking hard to win the Cup. Harder than it was in the glory years of the 70s.