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Post by PTH on Aug 10, 2023 23:37:07 GMT -5
I think Hughes is just showing why the Karlsson deal was so complicated... we got out of the Hoffman deal and got a pick just in exchange for patience in finding a fit for Petry. Hughes accepted taking on the legwork and uncertainty of a middleman role to gain assets.
I expect a mediocre return quickly or a better one later on. I'm fine with waiting, but I hope this doesn't drag on and become a distraction.
That being said, Petry has only himself to blame. He could have just gone to SJ.
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Post by seventeen on Aug 11, 2023 0:33:56 GMT -5
Tax situation is not great in California, they're a lot further from Michigan and he'd be on a losing team. That's a lot of reasons to not want to be in San Jose for the next 2-3 years.
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Post by jkr on Aug 11, 2023 7:07:32 GMT -5
Ok, I'mm going against the grain (as I have consistently with regard to this prospect) and say that Mailloux is not going to be a Habs Dman. It has nothing to do with off ice anything, and everything to do with my belief he just isn't going to be able to process the NHL game quickly enough. Hutson might be ready for late season antics if his team is eliminated. That might also be the same case for Reinbacher but I'm not sure there either. The guy who is closest to being an NHL ready dman is Adam Engstrom and he's playing in Sweden this coming season, though their seasons may be shorter than ours and if he's able to be available then, I think he joins the team. Struble, too, might make it as a defensive guy to thwart attackers, but because Bergie was really fond of him, he's a mystery (Berg loved Dalton Thrower too). Mailloux would be a great addition to a trade, though, to elevate the return we get (I can easily see Cranky throwing foodstuffs at me after that comment). I found this analysis of Mailloux on the EOTP site and thought it was a fair assessment. www.habseyesontheprize.com/logan-mailloux-2023-montreal-canadiens-top-25-under-25-prospect-profile-projection-scouting-stats/ |
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 11, 2023 9:48:31 GMT -5
Ok, I'mm going against the grain (as I have consistently with regard to this prospect) and say that Mailloux is not going to be a Habs Dman. It has nothing to do with off ice anything, and everything to do with my belief he just isn't going to be able to process the NHL game quickly enough. Hutson might be ready for late season antics if his team is eliminated. That might also be the same case for Reinbacher but I'm not sure there either. The guy who is closest to being an NHL ready dman is Adam Engstrom and he's playing in Sweden this coming season, though their seasons may be shorter than ours and if he's able to be available then, I think he joins the team. Struble, too, might make it as a defensive guy to thwart attackers, but because Bergie was really fond of him, he's a mystery (Berg loved Dalton Thrower too). Mailloux would be a great addition to a trade, though, to elevate the return we get (I can easily see Cranky throwing foodstuffs at me after that comment). I found this analysis of Mailloux on the EOTP site and thought it was a fair assessment. www.habseyesontheprize.com/logan-mailloux-2023-montreal-canadiens-top-25-under-25-prospect-profile-projection-scouting-stats/I'm ok with the mailman being on the 2nd pair behind orvile on the right and a Hutson/mailman 1st pp pairing |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 11, 2023 13:41:29 GMT -5
I'm ok with the mailman being on the 2nd pair behind orvile on the right and a Hutson/mailman 1st pp pairing My projection, for what it's worth is that in time, the top pair will be Guhle/Reinbacher and the second pair will be Hutson/Matheson. I reserve the right to swap Matheson and Reinbacher, but Mike has to play on the right, of course. I have no idea who will be on the third pair since Savard will be gone, Petry will be gone and we don't have much depth on that side, so I'm assuming another leftie will end up on the right. Maybe it will be Hutson, or Engstrom, both of whom have played RHD in isolated instances. Xhekaj will also be on the 3rd pair and then take your pick after that for depth. That's a pretty solid defence, with some elite capabilities and a nuclear deterrent. We really are going to have to have a projected line-up thread for next year and maybe 3 years from now, to tide us over during these August doldrums. PS. I'd very much appreciate the use names or nicknames I will recognize for players. My mind is numb enough that I can no longer work out who the Mailman is. Karl Malone? Mailloux probably? |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 11, 2023 13:58:18 GMT -5
Golly gee gholly, will you look at that! (When was the last time you heard that expression?) That article fits exactly what i said a few posts back. Bring him to the AHL and break him in as a defensive defenseman that has the tools to instantly go on the offense. We use to have a great prospect in Beaulieu which was never developed properly. He had the offensive instincts and bad hair days to be the next Chelios, but he couldn't make consistently good decison. Also had bad influence outside hockey that didn't help. The Habs mismanagement at the time just couldn't develop players if their life depended on it. We also had Komi who had no instincts and we couldn't coach a damn thing into him. He was under Julien in Hamilton and Juliens brilliant none coaching finished him off. A lousy coach meets a project...never works. Long term if things work out, Mail needs to be paired with Guhle, but Guhle can't carry him...yet. Guhle needs Mails offensive instincts and Mail needs to clone Guhles defensive instincts. (And i need a second career in coaching. I'd be great coach in the mould of Samuel L. Jackson.) I'm not worried about Mail with this new management the way i was worried about destroying Beaulieus career by the former management. Case in point, X had no business on the ice without the help and support of management. I have high hopes for Mail...and we desperatly need to develop him into our next Chelios. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 11, 2023 14:26:38 GMT -5
I'm ok with the mailman being on the 2nd pair behind orvile on the right and a Hutson/mailman 1st pp pairing Don't be suprised if Mail is on the 1st PP. You still need to defend and Hutson may have fabulous offense but it wont help if he can't defend. I'm worried about his size. Basically we will have the smallest defenseman in the NHL...and teams WILL focus on that. |
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Post by Cranky on Aug 11, 2023 15:39:24 GMT -5
Samuel L Jackson coaching...I'M INSPIRED!
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 11, 2023 18:23:34 GMT -5
I'm ok with the mailman being on the 2nd pair behind orvile on the right and a Hutson/mailman 1st pp pairing PS. I'd very much appreciate the use names or nicknames I will recognize for players. My mind is numb enough that I can no longer work out who the Mailman is. Karl Malone? Mailloux probably? Lol... Mailloux... I very much hope he delivers goals, assists, hits and 👊 |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 11, 2023 20:23:13 GMT -5
For those who don't know, Karl Malone, long since retired NBA power forward, got the nickname "The Mailman" because he always delivered. NBA nicknames seem to be the most original on all teams. There's a guard who is really good defensively, who has the nickname "Night Off" because whoever he guards usually has a night off. We need that stuff in the NHL. It's up to us to be creative and make these u
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Post by Skilly on Aug 12, 2023 0:37:28 GMT -5
For those who don't know, Karl Malone, long since retired NBA power forward, got the nickname "The Mailman" because he always delivered. NBA nicknames seem to be the most original on all teams. There's a guard who is really good defensively, who has the nickname "Night Off" because whoever he guards usually has a night off. We need that stuff in the NHL. It's up to us to be creative and make these u I got a similar nickname for Jake Allen Is it fair to re-name Allen "First shot" or something catchier but encapsulating the same issue? I call him Street Clothes. Because we are down 1-0 before he gets out of his street clothes |
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Post by habsorbed on Aug 12, 2023 1:28:00 GMT -5
It is somewhat amusing that Habs management and their twitter account have been radio silence since picking up Petry. And everyone waiting for announcemnt of the flip to another team. Meanwhile poor Kovacevic is left blowing in the wind as to whether he's going to get a Rolex watch for giving up #26 to Petry.
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Post by jkr on Aug 12, 2023 8:55:09 GMT -5
It is somewhat amusing that Habs management and their twitter account have been radio silence since picking up Petry. And everyone waiting for announcemnt of the flip to another team. Meanwhile poor Kovacevic is left blowing in the wind as to whether he's going to get a Rolex watch for giving up #26 to Petry. I don't know if 26 is that important to Petry. The pics I found of Petry in Edmonton show him wearing #2. |
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Post by folatre on Aug 12, 2023 9:37:09 GMT -5
Jeje, I had not even thought about the number. Who knows, maybe Petry is not the type of guy that cares all that much. And Kovacevic has bigger things to be concerned about than whether he continues to wear #26.
I think the Karlsson trade and Hughes getting in on the action was basically the big news for August. I would really be surprised if much of anything else happens until camp opens.
Of course, I imagine Hughes is talking to a few teams about Petry, though I doubt Montreal and the interested clubs feel great urgency. And I also believe Hughes is quietly conversing with Montembeault's agent about the general parameters for a new deal.
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Post by habsorbed on Aug 12, 2023 10:53:10 GMT -5
The radio silence on both sides tells me Hughes has spoken to Petry and told him not to fret as Hughes will be flipping him as soon as he can. if that wasn't the case and Petry was brought back "to help" the team the Habs would have had an anouncement welcoming Petry back and Petry would have posted a "I'm happy to be back as i always loved my time in Mtl until Covid hit and i couldn't meet with all the greart Habs fans who my wife and I love so much". In fact, Hughes might have even asked Petry if he is prepared to waive or wittle down his 15 team no trade clause to help find a new home.
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 12, 2023 11:18:55 GMT -5
The radio silence on both sides tells me Hughes has spoken to Petry and told him not to fret as Hughes will be flipping him as soon as he can. if that wasn't the case and Petry was brought back "to help" the team the Habs would have had an anouncement welcoming Petry back and Petry would have posted a "I'm happy to be back as i always loved my time in Mtl until Covid hit and i couldn't meet with all the greart Habs fans who my wife and I love so much". In fact, Hughes might have even asked Petry if he is prepared to waive or wittle down his 15 team no trade clause to help find a new home. That list should consist of mostly win now teams, Tampa florida, Dallas, rags, sens, Edmonton, kings, isles, wild, vegas, Avs |
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 12, 2023 16:45:24 GMT -5
For those who don't know, Karl Malone, long since retired NBA power forward, got the nickname "The Mailman" because he always delivered. NBA nicknames seem to be the most original on all teams. There's a guard who is really good defensively, who has the nickname "Night Off" because whoever he guards usually has a night off. We need that stuff in the NHL. It's up to us to be creative and make these u I got a similar nickname for Jake Allen I call him Street Clothes. Because we are down 1-0 before he gets out of his street clothes Actually that is the nick name for a well known basketball player on the L.A. Lakers Anthony Davis. The reason for that name is he is always on the bench wearing street clothes because he is injured. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Aug 12, 2023 19:27:12 GMT -5
I got a similar nickname for Jake Allen Actually that is the nick name for a well known basketball player on the L.A. Lakers Anthony Davis. The reason for that name is he is always on the bench wearing street clothes because he is injured. The NBA on TNT, which is what Canadian broadcasters should watch and learn how to do a show, are all over Davis on that |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Aug 13, 2023 12:44:59 GMT -5
Golly gee gholly, will you look at that! (When was the last time you heard that expression?) That article fits exactly what i said a few posts back. Bring him to the AHL and break him in as a defensive defenseman that has the tools to instantly go on the offense. We use to have a great prospect in Beaulieu which was never developed properly. He had the offensive instincts and bad hair days to be the next Chelios, but he couldn't make consistently good decison. Also had bad influence outside hockey that didn't help. The Habs mismanagement at the time just couldn't develop players if their life depended on it. We also had Komi who had no instincts and we couldn't coach a damn thing into him. He was under Julien in Hamilton and Juliens brilliant none coaching finished him off. A lousy coach meets a project...never works. Long term if things work out, Mail needs to be paired with Guhle, but Guhle can't carry him...yet. Guhle needs Mails offensive instincts and Mail needs to clone Guhles defensive instincts. (And i need a second career in coaching. I'd be great coach in the mould of Samuel L. Jackson.) I'm not worried about Mail with this new management the way i was worried about destroying Beaulieus career by the former management. Case in point, X had no business on the ice without the help and support of management. I have high hopes for Mail...and we desperatly need to develop him into our next Chelios. Mailoux has skills that cannot be taught. Skating, offensive instincts, strength, SHOT, hitting. He has missed several years which accounts for his weakness defensive positioning but that is teachable and more importantly learnable. His attitude is outstanding having gone through unfair hoops associated with a very unfair minor teenage mistake transgression. Others have been punished less for much worse actions. We have a potential big three on defense with Guhle the sure bet and Hutson with the highest upside and greatest size challenge. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 13, 2023 13:46:27 GMT -5
Mailoux has skills that cannot be taught. True. He also lacks skills that cannot be taught.  |
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Post by folatre on Aug 13, 2023 17:21:56 GMT -5
Bergevin left quite a number of nauseating parting 'gifts' to the Canadien in his final six months on the job (signing Hoffman, re-signing oft-injured Gallagher to a ludicrous deal both from a AAV and term perspective, Armia, etc.). However, his final draft may have yielded a stroke a genius with Mailloux at #31. I admit that I criticized this pick at the time, but I am strongly in the pro-Mailloux camp now. I believe this kid has done everything right on and off the ice since he returned from Sweden. And his player profile (RHD, size, skating, offensive skill set) is very promising. Sure, there is the chance that he may not 'get it' and adapt his tools in order to defend at a NHL level, but I foresee that most likely he will and therefore will be a nice top four piece long-term.
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 13, 2023 17:30:44 GMT -5
Bergevin vision at the end was what really handicaped the team. Those contracts, Hoffman, Armia, Gallagher and the trade for Dvorak are really eyesore at the moment. Yet his last 2 drafts seemed to have been very good.
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Post by folatre on Aug 13, 2023 18:38:56 GMT -5
Oh man, Tank, you're right. I totally forgot about the 'wisdom' of not getting an expiring ELC for Kotkaniemi done proactively for something in the 2 year/$2.5 AAV range instead of letting it drag on (not to mention after letting Julien and Ducharme dump on the kid) and giving a club (Carolina) with a motive the opportunity to pounce. No one in the world bothered to watch Coyotes' games, but the proof is now in the pudding so to say, a 1st and 2nd is a gross overpayment for a meh 3C like Dvorak.
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Post by Cranky on Aug 13, 2023 18:48:50 GMT -5
Bergei left quite a number of nauseating parting 'gifts' to the Canadien in his final six months on the job (signing Hoffman, re-signing oft-injured Gallagher to a ludicrous deal both from a AAV and term perspective, Armia, etc.). However, his final draft may have yielded a stroke a genius with Mailloux at #31. I admit that I criticized this pick at the time, but I am strongly in the pro-Mailloux camp now. I believe this kid has done everything right on and off the ice since he returned from Sweden. And his player profile (RHD, size, skating, offensive skill set) is very promising. Sure, there is the chance that he may not 'get it' and adapt his tools in order to defend at a NHL level, but I foresee that most likely he will and therefore will be a nice top four piece long-term. As long as we don't have brilliant coaches like Julien and MThead teaching and guiding our youngsters. "Take the man, kill the play" I was ten feet behind the bench in Hamilton when Komi made another dumb decision to tie up an opposing forward (take the man) and totally take himself out of position (failed to kill the play). He gets scored on because of the dumb half done play and comes back to the bench with his head hung between his legs. What did Julien do to help improve his young defenseman? He scowled and shook his head at him. Yes moron, he effed up so now you take that as a teachable moment and you send him back out to do better. Help him make better choices, not sulk and be down on himself. Where the hell did Julien and MThead learn their coaching/teaching techniques? From Gunnery Sergeant Hartman in “Full Metal Jacket? No, Komi is not a queer or a steer to yell at, he's a young man who learned how to play later on in his young life and never learned the basics of sound defense. "Take the man, kill the play" is not rocket science, it's basic defensive hockey. Worse, we didn't have anything worth calling management in BargainBin. What the hell did he know about coaching and player development to demand better. Truly the blind leading the stupid. Going back full circle...if we have great coaches in the AHL, coaches who actually deserve hhe title, they will help develop Mailoux to a top 4. He has the tools and size, now he needs the timing and decision making. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 14, 2023 2:10:31 GMT -5
Bergevin vision at the end was what really handicaped the team. Those contracts, Hoffman, Armia, Gallagher and the trade for Dvorak are really eyesore at the moment. Yet his last 2 drafts seemed to have been very good. Well, you can credit him for having Timmins and Co on staff, but Bergie isn't the guy calling the shots on the picks at the draft table (with the exception of Round 1). This was clear on the video of the draft table where he missed dinner or something because he was busy with the chip snacks. He kept going to Timmins to confirm a pick (eg, "the shooter?" when Caufield was up for grabs). It was framed as a question, so I certainly was under the impression that a) the possibilities had been discussed beforehand, which you'd expect and b) that they were going according to their list. There's more than enough to do for a GM, so scouting anyone other than the top prospects is not possible. I doubt very much that Bergevin knew anything about Josh Roy or Sean Farrell, just like Hughes probably didn't know much about Adam Engstrom or Jared Davidson. I don't have issues with Timmins and was disappointed when he was let go (a scapegoat). What I find hard to understand is the inconsistency in the very good drafting from 2018 to 2021 and the lacklustre picks from 2012 to 2017. There were some exceptions, of course, and the decision to go for size in 2013 hurt (McCarron, sheesh). Maybe it was the addition of Shane Churla from 2014 to 2020. Who knows, but the later years were solid. Harris, Romanov, Ylonen, Caufield, R-H-P, Struble, Guhle, Tuch, Farrell, Mailloux (I'll put him in even if I don't like him as many others feel differently), Kidney, Roy and Trudeau. I've left KK off as he's still not a finished product and I hesitate to grade him until after this season. Still that's a lot of guys and some really solid picks in the mid first round and late rounds. A handicap for Timmins was not having second round picks in 2014-15-16. |
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Post by seventeen on Aug 14, 2023 2:16:56 GMT -5
Going back full circle...if we have great coaches in the AHL, coaches who actually deserve hhe title, they will help develop Mailoux to a top 4. He has the tools and size, now he needs the timing and decision making. This is still a question mark to me. What kind of coach is Houle? I recall NWT stating that he noticed Houle playing his vets a lot while some our prospects were not getting the ice time they needed. Now, he may have had conflicting instructions...win/develop, win/develop? and every coach wants to win and winning is good goal in and of itself too. But...we shall see this year, now that Houle's prospect cupboard will be much fuller and better than in the past. If our kids aren't getting better, I hope HuGo make a change. They inherited Houle and this is the last year of his contract, I believe, so saving Molson some $$ should not be a consideration. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Aug 14, 2023 9:22:57 GMT -5
Going back full circle...if we have great coaches in the AHL, coaches who actually deserve hhe title, they will help develop Mailoux to a top 4. He has the tools and size, now he needs the timing and decision making. This is still a question mark to me. What kind of coach is Houle? I recall NWT stating that he noticed Houle playing his vets a lot while some our prospects were not getting the ice time they needed. Now, he may have had conflicting instructions...win/develop, win/develop? and every coach wants to win and winning is good goal in and of itself too. But...we shall see this year, now that Houle's prospect cupboard will be much fuller and better than in the past. If our kids aren't getting better, I hope HuGo make a change. They inherited Houle and this is the last year of his contract, I believe, so saving Molson some $$ should not be a consideration. That was definitely a concern about Houle during their playoff runs, but he now openly admits how young a team he and the staff will have and how it will be important to help them adjust. In the end, the guys that came up from Laval due to injuries, etc looked very well prepared and seem to fit in with the Habs. RHP fit in seamlessly, Ylönen did fine with more limited ice time, Barron looked much better than when he first was sent down, etc. Houle and company were not hired by HuGo and I believe this is the final years for their contracts, so how they handle the kids this season will be huge in whether HuGo will extend them or go with their own guys down the road. With all those draft picks coming, young teams will be the norm rather than the exception for the next few years too. |
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Post by drkcloud on Aug 15, 2023 13:12:55 GMT -5
Canadiens flip Petry to Red Wings for for Lindstrom, 4th-round pick www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2692784Lindstrom is a right handed former second round pick who was initially not qualified by the red wings and then signed to a one year deal. Becomes a UFA at the end of the season. Scored one goal last year. Rather underwhelmimg return |
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 15, 2023 13:14:20 GMT -5
Ouch and we are retaining 50% of the remaining 2 years.
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Post by Tankdriver on Aug 15, 2023 13:24:19 GMT -5
Also the 4th round is conditional:
2025 4th round pick (DET) [Conditional]*
*Conditions: Montreal receives the later of Detroit or Boston's 2025 4th round picks
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