Hoffmann/Pitlick gone, Petry is back

[Willie Dog]

www.nhl.com/fr/canadiens/news/mike-hoffman-et-rem-pitlick-echanges-a-pittsburgh/c-345527564

Petry will most likely be moved... wouldn't be surprised if he's moved to Detroit... Penns retained 25% of his salary

[PTH]

Hoffman goes, and we get a pick for taking on Petry's 2nd contract year.

But... is Légaré any good?
Why get Desmith?

[Tankdriver]

Didn't think we needed another goalie either. Guess we clear up space up front .

[Tankdriver]

I also might be in the minority here, but I still like Jeff Petry. I think the covid period reeked havoc on his family life and affected his play at the end. I think it also gives another year for our defenceman to grow and not be rushed.

I do think the Habs are trying to be more competitive this year. Could we be flipping a goalie to the Sabres?

[NWTHabsFan]

Lots of hidden little gems/details to this trade. They add just under $900K in cap space (for now). They get rid of Hoffman with no salary retained. That is huge. They move two forwards out, and get a young RFA 22 year old that can be sent to Laval and is a local kid. That opens up space in Montreal for younger guys like Ylönen and RHP, which was going to be a problem. They get a second round pick in 2025. They get a decent backup, so that all but signals that are going to waive Primeau since he has not looked close to ready at the NHL level yet. It also means they could potentially move a guy like Allen if need be. Not sure how much of a market there is, but you don’t want three goalies on a roster if you are also trying to make room for young guys up front. I also expect Petry will be moved. PIT retains 25% of his salary and his $3M bonus for this season has already been paid. So, he is cheap in terms of salary outlay for this season and full salary cost next season. Maybe HuGo retains to sweeten the pot, but I think trading Petry with 25% already retained and his 23-24 bonus paid is easier than moving Hoffman (who is now a San Jose Shark). All in all, good trade on its own and likely will not be fully valued until the expected next move or so is also done.

[PTH]

I don't dislike Petry as a player. But I question getting a goalie and a D when we just shipped out Edmundson just to make room, and had no great need for a goalie, unless we know Allen is hurt already or something.

This deal could make a lot of sense or no sense at all, based on future moves.

[habsorbed]

I'm good.

Bye bye Hoffman - not good for the cap and not good for the younguns, and terrible to watch, particularly on the PP. Altho wouldn't surprise me if Hoffman gets 25 goals in SJ where no one cares.

Petry and his family will be gone by September and hopefully we get something decent in return. Always thought he was overpaid and overrated - he stunk the joint out last year in Pitt.

The rest of what we got is blah - some might make the NHL but otherwise not much there. But we didn't give much up, so didn't expect much in return.

The real question is what does HuGo get for Petry and with the added cap space.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Aug 6, 2023 11:40:12 GMT -5 PTH said:

I don't dislike Petry as a player. But I question getting a goalie and a D when we just shipped out Edmundson just to make room, and had no great need for a goalie, unless we know Allen is hurt already or something.

This deal could make a lot of sense or no sense at all, based on future moves.

Casey DeSmith, eh ... wonder what Cayden Primeau is thinking right now ...

Cheers.

[habsorbed]

What is interesting is I beleive Petry has a partial NMC so Mtl wasn't on it his list of no goes. Maybe too many other destinations worse than Mtl or after spending a year in Pitt he realized Mtl and the Habs are a pretty decent place to play. He's probably thinking if only the Habs stayed out of this deal he could be in California.

[habsorbed]

Aug 6, 2023 11:49:00 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

Aug 6, 2023 11:40:12 GMT -5 PTH said:

I don't dislike Petry as a player. But I question getting a goalie and a D when we just shipped out Edmundson just to make room, and had no great need for a goalie, unless we know Allen is hurt already or something.

This deal could make a lot of sense or no sense at all, based on future moves.

Casey DeSmith, eh ... wonder what Cayden Primeau is thinking right now ...

Cheers.

Time to put up or move out!

[Tankdriver]

We got a 2nd round pick for Hoffman and Pitlick. Just that is good.

Petry and Desmith can be either flipped or kept to get even more back later...Hopefully we can package 2 or 3 prospects for a star player soon.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

Aug 6, 2023 11:42:14 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

I'm good.

Bye bye Hoffman - not good for the cap and not good for the younguns, and terrible to watch, particularly on the PP. Altho wouldn't surprise me if Hoffman gets 25 goals in SJ where no one cares.

Impressed that they were just able to move him and his salary out ...

Petry and his family will be gone by September and hopefully we get something decent in return. Always thought he was overpaid and overrated - he stunk the joint out last year in Pitt.

He's a veteran RH d-man, who has an M-NTC, and a NMC (CapFriendly) ... Pittsburgh also retained some salary, $1,562,500 ...

Cheers.

[drkcloud]

I'm amazed that Hughes could get involved in this deal and shed the untradeable Hoffman and get a second round pick in return. Someone will give us something for Petry at some point, although he's been terrible the past 2 years. Even if you keep him as the 7th guy for a while. Wideman can be sent to waivers

[PTH]

Aug 6, 2023 11:54:04 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

What is interesting is I beleive Petry has a partial NMC so Mtl wasn't on it his list of no goes. Maybe too many other destinations worse than Mtl or after spending a year in Pitt he realized Mtl and the Habs are a pretty decent place to play. He's probably thinking if only the Habs stayed out of this deal he could be in California.

I think he assumed Montreal wouldn't trade for him again. Tried to milk his 15 team list as much as he could, and kind if got burned.
If anyone knows what Petry might be worth, it's Hughes, so I figure he knows he won't be stuck with him.

[frozone]

Was Petry really that terrible last year? He was +2 and had 31 points in 61 games. He's always been a bit mistake prone, but those numbers aren't bad for a 35 year old. He's an elusive RHD and still skates very well at 6'-3" and 210 lbs. To me, he's very tradeable if we're willing to retain some more of his salary.

At the very least, Hughes has balanced out the lineup very nicely.

[Cranky]

Petry wanted to be back....

Judging from a program i saw a few years ago, pre-covid, Petry is very much a family man and covid played havoc with that. He and his family appeared to love Montreal...but it also could of been PR.

I can see him getting traded but i can also see him retiring as a Hab.

We don't have any "certain" depth on the right side. Not exactly a huge problem at this point but it could be if Hutson can't cut it and Mailloux falls prey to the cancel crowd. That leaves Rein who may be 2 years away.

Our RHD in three years can be league leading or a bust.

[Willie Dog]

Aug 6, 2023 13:31:20 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Petry wanted to be back....

Judging from a program i saw a few years ago, pre-covid, Petry is very much a family man and covid played havoc with that. He and his family appeared to love Montreal...but it also could of been PR.

I can see him getting traded but i can also see him retiring as a Hab.

We don't have any "certain" depth on the right side. Not exactly a huge problem at this point but it could be if Hutson can't cut it and Mailloux falls prey to the cancel crowd. That leaves Rein who may be 2 years away.

Our RHD in three years can be league leading or a bust.

I think you're right about Petry, Montreal is a great place to play if you are fine with being recognized

[folatre]

There is not really much to criticize in this trade. Hoffman is much less useful than Petry, so shipping him out without retaining anything is a tidy piece of business. I am not sure if there is a serious chance Petry plays another game for the Habs. It would sort of bite to be stuck retaining half ($2.34 million) on Petry for two seasons, but if the return is nice (i.e. better than what came back for Edmundson) then it can make sense. If Petry stays in Montreal, then Barron is definitely Laval-bound.

I know management is concerned that Primeau may not make it through waivers, so maybe they wanted to grab another goalie. But would it not be just as possible to lose both Primeau and DeSmith on waiver claims if, in fact, Allen and Montembeault are your tandem guys for 2023-24? As someone already mentioned, maybe Allen is injured.

Pittsburgh must have liked something about Legare since they picked him in the third round (2019). Supposedly he is power forward. But he has not shown much in two seasons in the AHL, so suffice it to say he is a long-shot.

As an aside, I get it that Karlsson's contract and injury history are super scary, but it strikes me that San Jose did not get all that much for the Norris Trophy man.

[Cranky]

I wonder if this has a Laffy angle, but i see none.

Certainly with Hoffman gone, there is a large opening
for a good forward...or developing one.

[habsorbed]

Maybe Petry stays but if it ain't working he will be very easy to unload and probably for a good return - much more than Eddy - 2nd rounder minimum. Petry and Maths would be a scary duo. They're both great skaters but not much smarts and limited defensive ability. Not sure the two can be on the same top 6.

[PTH]

Aug 6, 2023 14:21:08 GMT -5 folatre said:

As an aside, I get it that Karlsson's contract and injury history are super scary, but it strikes me that San Jose did not get all that much for the Norris Trophy man.

They got a 1st rounder, a bad 1-year contract in Hoffman, an overpaid middling player in Granlund who will be an attractive mid-level rental in 18 months (maybe worth a 2nd?), and a lot of cap space in the medium term...
1st rounders are nice and all, but this truly isn't a great return.

[PTH]

I could see Petry sticking around until the trade deadline, giving Barron a bit more AHL time, and at 50% at the '24 deadline, he'll fetch something if he is having an ok season.

Retention slots will become an issue, though. If we expect to rent out Monahan, that would mean there are no more slots to retain on Allen, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia or anyone else we might get a nice return on but not at full salary.

I guess for a true rental like Monahan it's easy enough to go through a 3d team, but still, it's something to think about.

[folatre]

My first thought was I really like this trade and no way Petry actually plays for the Habs. After a couple of late afternoon cold pops on the patio, I still like this trade though now I actually think the likeliest scenario is that Montreal keeps him for a signficant portion of the season. I think there may be a couple of reasons for this approach.

First, while he is far from flawless, Petry is a better NHL d-man than Barron or Kovacevic, so running with Petry for 2/3 of the season gives St. Louis a more potent blueline than he would have if Hughes finds a trade this summer. I do not believe Hughes is under any serious pressure from Groupe CH to win in 2023-24, but putting a better lineup on the ice for a few months is sort of like throwing a bone to Molson as well as to the more casual fans who only pay attention when things are going at least relatively well.

Second, waiting can get more teams involved. The cap is still a big impediment this season and right now after free agency there is just not that much liquidity in the system. Moreover, an NHL season is a long journey where injuries happen and teams start consolidating their playoff aspirations when the calendar turns to the new year, so teams with that laser focus hungry for a vet top four d-man will come calling. The pro-rated cap hit for 25 games of Petry is quite modest with Montreal retaining, thus plenty of interested parties would have the cap room to get involved by February.

[Skilly]

Aug 6, 2023 11:54:04 GMT -5 habsorbed said:

What is interesting is I beleive Petry has a partial NMC so Mtl wasn't on it his list of no goes. Maybe too many other destinations worse than Mtl or after spending a year in Pitt he realized Mtl and the Habs are a pretty decent place to play. He's probably thinking if only the Habs stayed out of this deal he could be in California.

That all depends on the exact contract language in his contract and if he even changed the no-trade teams when he was traded from Montreal.


I see this trade as a no lose for Montreal.

We get rid of Hoffman.
We secure a goalie with NHL experience
We acquire a RHD.

That third point is the reason why I think Hughes made this trade. Absolutely, he is probably actively trying to trade Petry, and we should get something tangible for him as well. But .... if there are no takers, we just acquired a player that will be our best right side defenseman for $4.6 million.

[folatre]

PTH, you are right, the retention slots start getting scarce in a hurry. My thinking is that Hughes has been on record stating that he is basically not open to the idea of retaining for multiple years, so the idea of Montreal eating money to trade Anderson is just not happening. For a nice return, I believe he would be willing to retain on Petry.

Who would the third retention for 2023-24 potentially be? Well, I would say Armia no. Because he is so inconsistent the return would be nothing more than a mid-round pick, so why the heck retain money for a fourth rounder? I really think if Armia continues to be a ghost most nights this season then he is heading to the press box, then to Laval, and finally to a date with a summer of 2024 buyout. Dvorak is a mystery because he is not bad but just sort of underwhelming in general and with the whole spring knee surgery who knows when he manages to ramp it up this season. And in reality for a middle-six centre, assuming he gets healthy and plays well, Dvorak should be able to be moved without retention next summer.

Time will say, but if I had predict today I think the second and third retention slots for this season will be Petry and Monahan, respectively.

[PTH]

Aug 6, 2023 19:46:49 GMT -5 folatre said:

PTH, you are right, the retention slots start getting scarce in a hurry. My thinking is that Hughes has been on record stating that he is basically not open to the idea of retaining for multiple years, so the idea of Montreal eating money to trade Anderson is just not happening. For a nice return, I believe he would be willing to retain on Petry.

Who would the third retention for 2023-24 potentially be? Well, I would say Armia no. Because he is so inconsistent the return would be nothing more than a mid-round pick, so why the heck retain money for a fourth rounder? I really think if Armia continues to be a ghost most nights this season then he is heading to the press box, then to Laval, and finally to a date with a summer of 2024 buyout. Dvorak is a mystery because he is not bad but just sort of underwhelming in general and with the whole spring knee surgery who knows when he manages to ramp it up this season. And in reality for a middle-six centre, assuming he gets healthy and plays well, Dvorak should be able to be moved without retention next summer.

Time will say, but if I had predict today I think the second and third retention slots for this season will be Petry and Monahan, respectively.

I suspect Monahan might get moved through a 3d team so two of Petry, Dvorak, Evans, Savard or someone else with a longer deal can be retained on. It only costs a 5th and adds flexibility all the way to July 1st 2024.

It's what I'd do.

[seventeen]

Aug 6, 2023 13:18:34 GMT -5 frozone said:

Was Petry really that terrible last year? He was +2 and had 31 points in 61 games. He's always been a bit mistake prone, but those numbers aren't bad for a 35 year old. He's an elusive RHD and still skates very well at 6'-3" and 210 lbs. To me, he's very tradeable if we're willing to retain some more of his salary.

At the very least, Hughes has balanced out the lineup very nicely.

This is what I was wondering. The other point to consider is that I think he and whoever his partner was, were matched against the toughest opposition lines, much as he was in Montreal. It could simply be that at his age he is no longer a top pair shut down type, but will be perfectly good on the 2nd pair. After Savard, we have no natural RHD. Maybe Matheson can play that spot and I sure hope so. Let's say Matheson does that and maintains his level of play equal to that of last season.

Guhle - Matheson
Harris - Petry
Xhekaj - Savard/Kovacevic

Depth - Barron, Struble, Wideman.

Arriving in 2024 - Hutson, Engstrom
Arriving in 2025 - Reinbacher, Mailloux, Trudeau

That is one scenario, namely that Petry is not flipped by training camp. If he is, we'll have a hole at that second RHD spot. There's no way Denis Savard should be on the top pair. He really shouldn't be on the 2nd pair either, but needs must, and if Petry is traded and Barron hasn't taken another step, that hole shows up again.

But this is an excellent move by Hughes and one that I'm sure he has been on the lookout for, namely being a catalyst for 2 other teams and in the process exacting a price that moves his plan along. That benefit to the Habs helping out is ridding ourselves of two players we did not need and were taking up money and ice time, while adding a player who fills an immediate need at RHD while still being a trade chip. Freeing up 2 spots does not guarantee any youngster a spot, but it at least opens up the possibility two young forwards being on the roster instead of in Laval, where space is also at a premium.

An ancillary benefit we should not take lightly is that Pittsburgh 2nd rounder. Draft 2025 is shaping up as a good one and it never hurts to have another 1st or 2nd round pick in those years. That complicated Sean Monahan deal looks a little less complicated to me now (if I'm reading it right, which may not be the case). It is unlikely Florida will finish in the bottom 10 this coming year, which means their 2024 first rounder will go to Philly and their 2025 pick will become Calgary's property. In turn, that removes some of the possibilities and means that if both Calgary and Panthers finish out of the top 10 picks, Habs will get the better of the two picks. If Calgary and Florida finish 22nd or better, we could possibly end up with the 11th overall pick, as long as one of those teams has a bad year, but not too bad a year. If Calgay finishes with one of the top 10 picks, we get Florida's pick, as long as it too isn't in the top 10. Did I say it was less complicated? Silly me.

Anyone read this differently?

[PTH]

Aug 6, 2023 20:26:57 GMT -5 seventeen said:

... It is unlikely Florida will finish in the bottom 10 this coming year, which means their 2024 first rounder will go to Philly and their 2025 pick will become Calgary's property. In turn, that removes some of the possibilities and means that if both Calgary and Panthers finish out of the top 10 picks, Habs will get the better of the two picks. If Calgary and Florida finish 22nd or better, we could possibly end up with the 11th overall pick, as long as one of those teams has a bad year, but not too bad a year. If Calgay finishes with one of the top 10 picks, we get Florida's pick, as long as it too isn't in the top 10. Did I say it was less complicated? Silly me.

Anyone read this differently?

Getting a top 10-15 pick through the Calgary pick was always the "reasonably optimistic" scenario...

[franko]

Aug 6, 2023 19:08:18 GMT -5 PTH said:

Aug 6, 2023 14:21:08 GMT -5 folatre said:

As an aside, I get it that Karlsson's contract and injury history are super scary, but it strikes me that San Jose did not get all that much for the Norris Trophy man.

They got a 1st rounder, a bad 1-year contract in Hoffman, an overpaid middling player in Granlund who will be an attractive mid-level rental in 18 months (maybe worth a 2nd?), and a lot of cap space in the medium term...
1st rounders are nice and all, but this truly isn't a great return.

best I can figure it, SJ traded a 2020 first-round pick (Tim Stutzle), Josh Norris, Chris Tierney, a second rounder in 2019 (?), Rudolfs Balcers, Dylan DeMelo, and their 2026 third-round pick for Francis Perron (from Ottawa way back when), Pittsburg's 2024 first-round pick, Mikael Granlund, Jan Rutta, Mike Hoffman, and a coupla years of Karlsson.

shades of LeClair and Desjardins to rent Recchi for a coupla years.

[seventeen]

Aug 6, 2023 19:46:49 GMT -5 folatre said:

Time will say, but if I had predict today I think the second and third retention slots for this season will be Petry and Monahan, respectively.

Not sure Monahan will require any retention. By the TDL, how much is left of the season, 1/3? So that's a CAP hit of less than $700K for the acquiring team, which is easily manageable.