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Post by seventeen on Oct 17, 2023 12:42:23 GMT -5
I think Dach is a top 6 player. He just needs to stay healthy. Huge bummer. I still don't know how that hit ended up being so bad. I read somewhere that Tinordi's leg trapped Dach's ankle and then when the jackass followed through, Dach's knee was trapped into a twisting motion. It was just a huge fluke. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 17, 2023 12:50:32 GMT -5
What this means is that the second line will now consist of Monahan at centre. It's likely that Slaf stays where he is, and then you're left with deciding if Newhook is the left winger on that line or is the centre on the 3rd line. If Newhook takes on the 3rd line, you need a winger for the 2nd. For me, regardless of RW or LW, Joshua roy is the call-up and placed on either the 2nd or 3rd line. You keep the 4th line intact as it's been good. The 3rd line needs some work. Until Dvorak is back, which could be immediately since his LTIR is ephemeral (he's been skating in a normal jersey for a while now), we don't have an NHL centre we can call up so it almost forces Newhook to the 3rd line. If Dvorak is indeed suddenly healthy again, we lose something but it's not a disaster.
Caufield - Suzuki - Anderson
Newhook - Monahan - Slaf
Pearson - Dvorak - preferably Roy, but probably Gallagher
RHP - Evans - Ylonen
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Post by Skilly on Oct 17, 2023 13:14:42 GMT -5
Scoring was always going to be an issue for this team. Injuries were also on everyone's long list of "ifs" coming into this season. So not sure where the optimism was coming from. This was always a high 60-low 70 point team. Kirby Dach didn't move that needle. He isn't a player that costs 10 points in the standings, that's the point differential of real studs in this league, not a player that hasn't played a full season in 3-4 years, and hasn't shown any potential yet Well, i and many fans hoped Dach would move the needle. Perhaps better than PLD, and some thought he might even take #1 away form Suze in time. Perhaps we were just being fans but hope is all we had. Now we may never know whethe rit was a false hope. This is a huge loss for both this season and perhaps a lot longer. The best ability in pro athletes is availABILITY. Until Dach can finish a season and prove he isn’t injury-prone, relying on him to be a difference maker is foolhardy. ********** EDIT DACH is in his 5th season as an NHLer. He has played 212 games. He has played 152 out of 208 with Chicago He will have played 60 out of 164 with Montreal At the end of this season he will have missed 160 games in 5 years! I’m reminded of that video game I use to play as a kid called Knockout. The first boxer you faced was Glass Joe … we have Glass Dach |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 17, 2023 13:29:09 GMT -5
What this means is that the second line will now consist of Monahan at centre. It's likely that Slaf stays where he is, and then you're left with deciding if Newhook is the left winger on that line or is the centre on the 3rd line. If Newhook takes on the 3rd line, you need a winger for the 2nd. For me, regardless of RW or LW, Joshua roy is the call-up and placed on either the 2nd or 3rd line. You keep the 4th line intact as it's been good. The 3rd line needs some work. Until Dvorak is back, which could be immediately since his LTIR is ephemeral (he's been skating in a normal jersey for a while now), we don't have an NHL centre we can call up so it almost forces Newhook to the 3rd line. If Dvorak is indeed suddenly healthy again, we lose something but it's not a disaster. Caufield - Suzuki - Anderson Newhook - Monahan - Slaf Pearson - Dvorak - preferably Roy, but probably Gallagher RHP - Evans - Ylonen Arpón Basu has tweeted that MSL already said Newhook will now play center |
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Post by Cranky on Oct 17, 2023 13:41:17 GMT -5
This is a huge, disproportional hit on the team. Without Dach, the opposition can focus on Suzuki. This puts all the pressure on one "production" line, which is a recipe for disaster.
By himself, Dach is not worth 10 points to the team standings, but his absence puts add on pressure which may very well be worth 10 points.
A really bad day to be a Hab fan with a pending year of futility...
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Post by seventeen on Oct 17, 2023 14:12:02 GMT -5
What this means is that the second line will now consist of Monahan at centre. It's likely that Slaf stays where he is, and then you're left with deciding if Newhook is the left winger on that line or is the centre on the 3rd line. If Newhook takes on the 3rd line, you need a winger for the 2nd. For me, regardless of RW or LW, Joshua roy is the call-up and placed on either the 2nd or 3rd line. You keep the 4th line intact as it's been good. The 3rd line needs some work. Until Dvorak is back, which could be immediately since his LTIR is ephemeral (he's been skating in a normal jersey for a while now), we don't have an NHL centre we can call up so it almost forces Newhook to the 3rd line. If Dvorak is indeed suddenly healthy again, we lose something but it's not a disaster. Caufield - Suzuki - Anderson Newhook - Monahan - Slaf Pearson - Dvorak - preferably Roy, but probably Gallagher RHP - Evans - Ylonen Arpón Basu has tweeted that MSL already said Newhook will now play center Did he suggest which he would be, 2C or 3C? |
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Post by PTH on Oct 17, 2023 14:13:09 GMT -5
What this means is that the second line will now consist of Monahan at centre. It's likely that Slaf stays where he is, and then you're left with deciding if Newhook is the left winger on that line or is the centre on the 3rd line. If Newhook takes on the 3rd line, you need a winger for the 2nd. For me, regardless of RW or LW, Joshua roy is the call-up and placed on either the 2nd or 3rd line. You keep the 4th line intact as it's been good. The 3rd line needs some work. Until Dvorak is back, which could be immediately since his LTIR is ephemeral (he's been skating in a normal jersey for a while now), we don't have an NHL centre we can call up so it almost forces Newhook to the 3rd line. If Dvorak is indeed suddenly healthy again, we lose something but it's not a disaster. Caufield - Suzuki - Anderson Newhook - Monahan - Slaf Pearson - Dvorak - preferably Roy, but probably Gallagher RHP - Evans - Ylonen The top lines appear to be: Caufield - Suzuki - RHP Slaf - Newhook - Anderson I assume for the other 2: Pearson-Monahan-Gallagher Pezzeta-Evans-Ylonen |
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Post by habsask on Oct 17, 2023 16:22:19 GMT -5
In terms of preventing our best players getting targeted by other teams heavies I have a vague memory of a former Habs enforcer before the game started or early in the game telling the other team's heavy, paraphrasing, if you run at our talented players I will put your best player out of action. It seemed to be effective. Perhaps Habs coaches & Wifi ought to try the approach.
Beating up the offending player after he has put a Habs top player out for the season isn't really helpful.
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Post by Skilly on Oct 17, 2023 17:53:41 GMT -5
Just for reference, there are sites that track a players WAR (wins above replacement) value. The wins refer to the teams wins without the player
In 2019 (Stone)and 2020 (Panarin) the highest value was 4.6 and 4.4 wins respectively. With these players out, and using replacement players, the stat indicates the team lost 9 points. But the Habs will suffer 10 points without Dach? He is a good player, but he doesn't produce enough to be up there with the elite players of the league in WAR value
I tried to find a site to see what Dach's WAR value was last year. I couldn't find one, but I will keep looking
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 17, 2023 20:04:12 GMT -5
Dach was fast becoming my favorite player on the team and possibly its most talented forward. The size, reached, poise and control with the puck, and skating reminded me of what I hoped we were getting from Kotkaniemi and I like Dach way more than him. He even plays with an edge and does stuff Suzuki can’t do and vice versa.
A 1-2 center combo of Suzuki-Dach is 100% where the future lies for this franchise and the one Gorton, Hughes, and MSL are banking will be the backbone of our return the contention. I agree and now we get a better shot at adding a high pick.
I’m totally confident that IF Dach can stay healthy that he’s a legit Top 6 and, I think, a natural center given his puck skills. I was just excited to watch him this year.
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Post by drkcloud on Oct 17, 2023 21:38:13 GMT -5
The Canadiens have announced that it is in fact a torn ACL and torn MCL and he is done for the season
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 17, 2023 21:44:58 GMT -5
The Canadiens have announced that it is in fact a torn ACL and torn MCL and he is done for the season Yuppers. 😢 |
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Post by Skilly on Oct 18, 2023 8:16:55 GMT -5
Dach was fast becoming my favorite player on the team and possibly its most talented forward. The size, reached, poise and control with the puck, and skating reminded me of what I hoped we were getting from Kotkaniemi and I like Dach way more than him. He even plays with an edge and does stuff Suzuki can’t do and vice versa. A 1-2 center combo of Suzuki-Dach is 100% where the future lies for this franchise and the one Gorton, Hughes, and MSL are banking will be the backbone of our return the contention. I agree and now we get a better shot at adding a high pick. I’m totally confident that IF Dach can stay healthy that he’s a legit Top 6 and, I think, a natural center given his puck skills. I was just excited to watch him this year. He reminds me of Bobby Smith. My all time favourite player. So yes, I like Dach. A lot. I just can’t get too excited until I see the consistent production and see he can play and avoid injury. It’s the same feeling I have with Caufield. Will he be a goal scoring stud, or will he get injured frequently and be a 25 goals in half a season player? |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 18, 2023 8:34:29 GMT -5
Spot on with the Bobby Smith comparison, Skilly. With a bit more of a mean streak. It's all about the health at this point. And it's the kind of loss that that will ripple through the lineup and likely result in a solid level down in production as everyone else is sort of playing out of their best spot. Newhook can't drive that line as well as Dach, which means Slaf is going to have less chances than he would have, more pressure on Suzuki and Caufield.... I think this is a huge blow.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 18, 2023 9:22:05 GMT -5
Dach was fast becoming my favorite player on the team and possibly its most talented forward. The size, reached, poise and control with the puck, and skating reminded me of what I hoped we were getting from Kotkaniemi and I like Dach way more than him. He even plays with an edge and does stuff Suzuki can’t do and vice versa. A 1-2 center combo of Suzuki-Dach is 100% where the future lies for this franchise and the one Gorton, Hughes, and MSL are banking will be the backbone of our return the contention. I agree and now we get a better shot at adding a high pick. I’m totally confident that IF Dach can stay healthy that he’s a legit Top 6 and, I think, a natural center given his puck skills. I was just excited to watch him this year. Good post, BH ... Cheers. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 18, 2023 12:53:20 GMT -5
Just for reference, there are sites that track a players WAR (wins above replacement) value. The wins refer to the teams wins without the player In 2019 (Stone)and 2020 (Panarin) the highest value was 4.6 and 4.4 wins respectively. With these players out, and using replacement players, the stat indicates the team lost 9 points. But the Habs will suffer 10 points without Dach? He is a good player, but he doesn't produce enough to be up there with the elite players of the league in WAR value I tried to find a site to see what Dach's WAR value was last year. I couldn't find one, but I will keep looking Sure, but the teams those guys were on had a bunch of more developed players than we do. I could see Dach providing an extra goal or two five times a year, turning a loss into a tie. You're also assuming Dach is the 50 point guy he was last year while we optimists are expecting him to be a 70 point guy (and more when he fully matures). We project in a glass half full way. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Oct 18, 2023 13:08:19 GMT -5
Awesome. 😔
Nothing official from the team yet.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 18, 2023 13:10:34 GMT -5
So much for figuring out how to avoid being such an injury prone team.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 18, 2023 13:17:33 GMT -5
A 1-2 center combo of Suzuki-Dach is 100% where the future lies for this franchise and the one Gorton, Hughes, and MSL are banking will be the backbone of our return the contention. I agree and now we get a better shot at adding a high pick. There are those 3 guys at the top of the 2024 draft pyramid (so far). I'm not even sure we need to get into the top 3 picks to have a shot at one of them. There are some dynamite defensemen who seem to be improving and moving up the draft board. We all know how much defensemen are valued above wingers and all three elite forwards are wingers (or will likely be wingers at the NHL level). Demidov, for example, beat out Michkov for a spot on SKA St. Petersburg. Probably because of being more responsible defensively, but the kid has real offensive chops too. Eiserman is a scoring machine....ten points in 5 games so far, including 9 goals. Celebrini has 4 points in his first 2 NCAA games, playing with Hutson. Demidov is a December birthday, but Eiserman and Celebrini are both summer birthdays so they are younger. One of those two would be quite something in a Habs uniform. Yeah, I'm trying to see whatever silver lining I can find about Dach's injury. I pray it doesn't affect his career. |
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Post by seventeen on Oct 18, 2023 13:20:29 GMT -5
So much for figuring out how to avoid being such an injury prone team. Does anyone know how it happened? A slash? A blocked shot? If it was a slash, I take a two hander to the guy who did it next time we play them. Or to their best player and let their coach railroad the guy who slashed Guhle. |
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Post by Andrew on Oct 18, 2023 16:38:51 GMT -5
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Post by Cranky on Oct 18, 2023 17:21:18 GMT -5
Way back...i quit football because of potential knee problems. When you are 17 and two guys already have knee surgeries in high school, it's bad. Then scrimmaging with yhe McGill Redman i find out that half the players had knee injuries sometime in their "career". What careers? These are 18 to 24 year olds.
Hard pass. I'm enjoying my later life with perfectly good knees.
As for Dach, i don't know how this will effect him. He was coming on strong physically and dominating. Will this wipe out his will? We wont know for at least a year. Don't be suprised if it does.
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 18, 2023 17:36:47 GMT -5
Way back...i quit football because of potential knee problems. When you are 17 and two guys already have knee surgeries in high school, it's bad. Then scrimmaging with yhe McGill Redman i find out that half the players had knee injuries sometime in their "career". What careers? These are 18 to 24 year olds. Hard pass. I'm enjoying my later life with perfectly good knees. As for Dach, i don't know how this will effect him. He was coming on strong physically and dominating. Will this wipe out his will? We wont know for at least a year. Don't be suprised if it does. I think last year, even though he got injured, Kirby felt really good about himself. I'm hoping getting injured this early doesn't affect him. |
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Post by habsorbed on Oct 19, 2023 1:41:35 GMT -5
Way back...i quit football because of potential knee problems. When you are 17 and two guys already have knee surgeries in high school, it's bad. Then scrimmaging with yhe McGill Redman i find out that half the players had knee injuries sometime in their "career". What careers? These are 18 to 24 year olds. Hard pass. I'm enjoying my later life with perfectly good knees. As for Dach, i don't know how this will effect him. He was coming on strong physically and dominating. Will this wipe out his will? We wont know for at least a year. Don't be suprised if it does. I think last year, even though he got injured, Kirby felt really good about himself. I'm hoping getting injured this early doesn't affect him. It gave me some hope to see Norris, just about same age as Dach, returned to the Sens tonight after missing last season and looked very good with 2 goals. Maybe reps aren't so important  |
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Post by Cranky on Oct 19, 2023 7:03:45 GMT -5
Way back...i quit football because of potential knee problems. When you are 17 and two guys already have knee surgeries in high school, it's bad. Then scrimmaging with yhe McGill Redman i find out that half the players had knee injuries sometime in their "career". What careers? These are 18 to 24 year olds. Hard pass. I'm enjoying my later life with perfectly good knees. As for Dach, i don't know how this will effect him. He was coming on strong physically and dominating. Will this wipe out his will? We wont know for at least a year. Don't be suprised if it does. I think last year, even though he got injured, Kirby felt really good about himself. I'm hoping getting injured this early doesn't affect him. The upside with Dach is that he has ALL the tools for greatness so how far he goes is totally dependent on what's going on between his ears. He had a serious injury early on and it appeared that it stagnated his career until he was traded to the Habs. Will this repeat? We won't know until a year from now. That in itself is a huge setback in his and the teams development. Three games in and it's a disaster... |
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Post by IamCanadiens on Oct 19, 2023 8:17:50 GMT -5
I think last year, even though he got injured, Kirby felt really good about himself. I'm hoping getting injured this early doesn't affect him. Three games in and it's a disaster... Or maybe it laid the foundation for obtaining a franchise player. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 19, 2023 9:09:10 GMT -5
I'm confident Kirby can make a full recovery. This surgery has become pretty routine across the sports landscape and athletes can fully recover. I think it can be harder in basketball where guys rely on planting and exploding the leg. Hockey is, theoretically, more forgiving on the knees. It was just a freak accident.
As I said earlier, I think we already have our franchise level centers in Suzuki and Dach and an elite sniper in Caufield. But they have to show it and stay healthy. Another top 5 pick would be nice but I would have happily foregone that this year for a "we've arrived" kind of performance from our best forwards. As it is, Suzuki and Caufield have a lot of weight on their shoulders. Dach really would have spread that around and taken some of the burden off their shoulders.
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 19, 2023 9:17:26 GMT -5
I'm confident Kirby can make a full recovery. This surgery has become pretty routine across the sports landscape and athletes can fully recover. I think it can be harder in basketball where guys rely on planting and exploding the leg. Hockey is, theoretically, more forgiving on the knees. It was just a freak accident. As I said earlier, I think we already have our franchise level centers in Suzuki and Dach and an elite sniper in Caufield. But they have to show it and stay healthy. Another top 5 pick would be nice but I would have happily foregone that this year for a "we've arrived" kind of performance from our best forwards. As it is, Suzuki and Caufield have a lot of weight on their shoulders. Dach really would have spread that around and taken some of the burden off their shoulders. Unless Monahan is the 2C, I think this will affect Slaf as well |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 19, 2023 9:56:28 GMT -5
I'm confident Kirby can make a full recovery. This surgery has become pretty routine across the sports landscape and athletes can fully recover. I think it can be harder in basketball where guys rely on planting and exploding the leg. Hockey is, theoretically, more forgiving on the knees. It was just a freak accident. As I said earlier, I think we already have our franchise level centers in Suzuki and Dach and an elite sniper in Caufield. But they have to show it and stay healthy. Another top 5 pick would be nice but I would have happily foregone that this year for a "we've arrived" kind of performance from our best forwards. As it is, Suzuki and Caufield have a lot of weight on their shoulders. Dach really would have spread that around and taken some of the burden off their shoulders. Unless Monahan is the 2C, I think this will affect Slaf as well Agree, Slaf is probably the biggest casualty of the Dach injury but he has a long way to go anyway. We'll see what kind of creator/facilitator Newhook can be. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Oct 19, 2023 10:36:50 GMT -5
Looks like Guhle us day to day, the original reports were wrong... they better not rush him back
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