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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 23, 2007 8:16:31 GMT -5
Habs chose a good kid at 12th, but I can't shake this feeling that they missed a golden opportunity(ies) leaving me with a sick feeling in my gut. I hate that feeling. In my mind the issue is how much better or worse is Esposito than Max Pacioretty and whatever draft pick it would have cost us to move up ahead of Pittsburgh. A 2nd or 3rd rounder? Pacioretty + a pick > Esposito? Geez. He could be a a bust but the potentially high celing makes me think we should have traded up to #19 and grabbed him, especially since I think they are thrilled to get McDonagh. They must have really been sour on Esposito to not move up. Who here wasn't 100% convinced that Pittsburgh would take him at #20? It's actually a perfect situation for him.
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Post by jkr on Jun 23, 2007 8:23:27 GMT -5
I'm with Cranky on this....sometime you have to please the fans. Bob should of taken the risk and traded the 22 and a 3rd rounder for the opportunity. The fans will much happier with a successful team. Scouting staffs don't spend months of analysis and study on players to throw it away on draft day to make a popular pick.
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Post by jkr on Jun 23, 2007 8:29:30 GMT -5
Habs chose a good kid at 12th, but I can't shake this feeling that they missed a golden opportunity(ies) leaving me with a sick feeling in my gut. I hate that feeling. In my mind the issue is how much better or worse is Esposito than Max Pacioretty and whatever draft pick it would have cost us to move up ahead of Pittsburgh. A 2nd or 3rd rounder? Pacioretty + a pick > Esposito? Geez. He could be a a bust but the potentially high celing makes me think we should have traded up to #19 and grabbed him, especially since I think they are thrilled to get McDonagh. They must have really been sour on Esposito to not move up. Who here wasn't 100% convinced that Pittsburgh would take him at #20? It's actually a perfect situation for him. It wasn't just Montreal that went sour on him. Chereponov went late probably because of the lack of a transfer agreement. Esposito went late because a lot of teams didn't think he was worth a high 1st rounder. That's what makes me wonder. A lot of organizations saw him play & chose to pass.
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Post by Douper on Jun 23, 2007 8:37:13 GMT -5
It was a perfect fit for Angelo. There is no way he's a bust now. He'll probably win the calder when he gets the chance to play in the NHL.
As for our picks. I like the McDonagh pick, that's 2 straight "Mr Hockey's" out of Minnesotta.
Can't say I have ever heard of the other guy. Max Pancreatic.
So let's say our young guys graduate in 2009:
G - Price #2
D - Markov Komi O'Byrne (07) McDonagh (09) Fisher(09) Valatenko(08)
Gorges(07) /Cote (07)
This could be very VERY solid D.
Timmons is turning this D around.
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Post by Roggy on Jun 23, 2007 8:50:42 GMT -5
"Why does it always have to be the hometown kid," you got to be kidding? go look at the last 15 years of HAbs drafts I'm talking about the fans complaining about not drafting the hometown kid. Remember how much pressure there was to draft Latendresse? How about the complaining we still hear about Gagne...or lets go back to Denis Savard. Or in other aspects, how about the fervor over trying to put a package together to get Lecavalier from Tampa, because he's great and he grew up a Hab fan. In Montreal, it's always about getting the hometown kid. Same as Toronto, and when they do, it always works out. (Lindros, Corson, Roberts, O'Neill, Nolan) Look at the last 3 cup winners, Tampa, Carolina, Anaheim. No pressure to draft hometown kids because they don't produce hockey players yet. Its all about "Best Player for the Team" down there. Funny how that works. They please their fans by winning, not by getting players people know through their neighbors friend's cousin.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 23, 2007 9:00:57 GMT -5
I hate that feeling. In my mind the issue is how much better or worse is Esposito than Max Pacioretty and whatever draft pick it would have cost us to move up ahead of Pittsburgh. A 2nd or 3rd rounder? That's exactly what I'm thinking. Never mind that we need a number one center NOW. not yesterday, NOW. On top of that, we need to replace Koivu in a few years. How straight forward and logical is that? Chances are that Espo will win the Calder but of course, all the Gainey lovers will just point out that poor little Trevor and poor Gainey could have no way of knowing that. And God forbid that anyone could possibly question their judgement (based on drafting Price The Saviour, never mind that Price The Saviour has yet to see a single shot from an NHL sniper). I'm hoping that there is a dirty little secret about Espo otherwise the media will rip Gainey a dozen new ones and I would say it's well and truly justified. A friend of mine who is in the NHL is just lauging his head off right now. Problem is, he is doing it at our expense.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 23, 2007 9:07:48 GMT -5
"Why does it always have to be the hometown kid," you got to be kidding? go look at the last 15 years of HAbs drafts I'm talking about the fans complaining about not drafting the hometown kid. Remember how much pressure there was to draft Latendresse? How about the complaining we still hear about Gagne...or lets go back to Denis Savard. Or in other aspects, how about the fervor over trying to put a package together to get Lecavalier from Tampa, because he's great and he grew up a Hab fan. In Montreal, it's always about getting the hometown kid. Same as Toronto, and when they do, it always works out. (Lindros, Corson, Roberts, O'Neill, Nolan) Look at the last 3 cup winners, Tampa, Carolina, Anaheim. No pressure to draft hometown kids because they don't produce hockey players yet. Its all about "Best Player for the Team" down there. Funny how that works. They please their fans by winning, not by getting players people know through their neighbors friend's cousin. What does it have to do with "home town kid"? Who is going to be our number two center? Pleks? Chips? You? Me? We are dangerously weak down the middle NOW and with nothing special in the AHL pipeline, we will be atrocious in a few years. Right now, based on who is signed, we are a joke on defense and a joke down the center.
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Post by halihab on Jun 23, 2007 9:22:17 GMT -5
Relax people ! We picked very well based on our needs. You can't rebuild a defence overnight. I like very much the way our D is shaping up. As far as the centre position goes, I believe we can get that thru UFA. Face it, we are an undersized team right now and with these two first round picks we just got a lot bigger and as Timmins said, with some hockey sense and ability. Take a look at the playoffs, you need these players in your line-up. Now I would like to see Timmins , if he can possibly swing it, nab Bill Sweatt in the second round.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2007 9:23:03 GMT -5
They must have really been sour on Esposito to not move up. Who here wasn't 100% convinced that Pittsburgh would take him at #20? It's actually a perfect situation for him. I got this impression from what Gainey was saying to TSN right after they drafted McDonagh, BH. He said something like, "... Angleo was on our list but just not at the number-12 position. " I was mentioning to CO that it could turn out to be a bust if Espo turns out to be another Denis Savard or Mike Bossy. However, on the other side of the coin he could turn out to be Mike Ribeiro. Ribs had the talent but fell out of favour with the media, management and fans (a few anyway) for a number of reasons. But, I don't think this scenario will unfold in Pittsburgh. He's going to a team where he will be able to relate to all of the younger players. They're all around the same age, talented, motivated and who all probably play the same EA games ... just an analogy. He'll fit in when he makes the team. Don't know if it will be this year but he'd be daft if he didn't go to training camp thinking he could make the roster. I'm a bit disappointed that he isn't in Montreal, but I am good with a player who is touted as possibly the best defenceman in the draft. A good rushing defenceman and a hard hitter. I guess the Habs really like the Minnesota region ... that's back-to-back selections where they've taken "Mr. Hockey." Don't know the other selection at all other than what's been posted about him. Cheers.
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Post by halihab on Jun 23, 2007 9:29:40 GMT -5
It's obvious that Gainey and Timmins were not alone in their assessment of Espo and where they had him ranked. Like Timmins said, you spend 9 months ranking all these players and narrowing your list down to the top 100 that you like. Go to the draft and if your player is still there you take him. You don't start changing your game plan to please a few hometown media types.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 23, 2007 9:36:12 GMT -5
2nd round: P.K. SUBBAN who's this?
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Post by halihab on Jun 23, 2007 10:03:59 GMT -5
2nd round: P.K. SUBBAN who's this? He's a defenceman with the Belleville Bulls. Solid frame listed at 6' 200 lbs. good skater with offensive ability. According to their website was voted as having the hardest shot in the OHL. Who does that remind you of ?
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Post by mic on Jun 23, 2007 10:05:21 GMT -5
Right now, based on who is signed, we are a joke on defense and a joke down the center. How would drafting Esposito change that? You are contradicting yourself here. If you consider our current roster, then obviously is a good center needed; but so is a good defenseman. So in this regard, drafting either a defenseman or a center can be perfectly defended. (Some would even argue that a good defenseman is a better asset than a forward.) If you don't consider our current roster, then it basically comes down to drafting who you think that will be the best player. If they think it's McDonagh, then they draft him. We will see in a few years if this choice was wise or not; but the choice of a player right now is their job. I am happy they didn't feel the need to satisfy local media/fans. I would also have been happy if they felt that Esposito is the real deal.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 23, 2007 10:11:49 GMT -5
3rd round: Draft this guy: MAXIM MAYOROV Ranked in the 20's and the 2nd best russian.
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Post by mic on Jun 23, 2007 10:12:03 GMT -5
With a third round pick (from Washington; when did they trade it?), the Habs take Olivier Fortier (center from Rimouski). Smallish center. That will certainly please HA again ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by mic on Jun 23, 2007 10:15:23 GMT -5
3rd round: Draft this guy: MAXIM MAYOROV Ranked in the 20's and the 2nd best russian. Yep. That would certainly increase the quality of the prospect pool. Moreover, I don't think that a Russian in a third round is necessarily more risky than, say, Olivier Fortier.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 23, 2007 10:17:06 GMT -5
YANNICK WEBER another d.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2007 10:36:09 GMT -5
2nd round: P.K. SUBBAN who's this? He's a defenceman with the Belleville Bulls. Solid frame listed at 6' 200 lbs. good skater with offensive ability. According to their website was voted as having the hardest shot in the OHL. Who does that remind you of ? Born in .... Toronto ... oh the pain. But, he looks to be another tough defenceman. He's playing just down the road in Belleville. Might have to make the odd trip to see him this year. Cheers. Edit: Just noticed that's he's 5'10" and 200 lbs. Smallish but tough. Where have we heard this before?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2007 10:42:51 GMT -5
Height: 5.10 Weight: 195 Birthdate: 1988-09-23 Birthplace: Hometown: Bern, Switzerland Hope these guys grow a bit more. Cheers.
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Post by Kareem on Jun 23, 2007 10:52:44 GMT -5
Very happy they did not pick Esposito, I don't see why people call him a center, he'll most likely play on the wing. He doesn't have the hockey sense not to and besides, theres a reason he fell so far. He really ain't that good. Lucky for him you don't need to be good with Pittsburgh.
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Post by mic on Jun 23, 2007 11:37:46 GMT -5
So far, this gives us: 12. Ryan McDonagh - D 22. Max Pacioretty - LW 43. P.K. Subban - D 65. Olivier Fortier - C 73. Yannick Weber - D 133. Joe Stejskal - D (6' 2" 186 HIGH-MN GRAND RAPIDS) 142. Andrew Conboy - LW (6' 3.5" 190 USHL OMAHA)
Seems so far that the scouting team sure loved the US market this year. Seems also that they listened to BC's advice to draft as many defensement as possible.
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Post by habmeister on Jun 23, 2007 11:44:30 GMT -5
very happy with this pick. noticed that the first round was chock full of minnesota kids and we got mr. hockey the "best" player from minnesota high school. am more glad that our staff passed on a kid at #12 that teams with the 13,14,15,16,17,18,19 pick also thought weren't good enough.
i have a feeling passing on perron at #22 could be a bigger mistake. this kid has unreal skills.
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Post by habmeister on Jun 23, 2007 11:51:19 GMT -5
the only beef that i may have with timmins this draft year is his stating that they're trying to hit homeruns. i don't see pacioretty having homerun potential, they got their man with the #12 pick and i think they should have went with a player that has potential to be a star or bust with the #22 pick.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jun 23, 2007 12:20:00 GMT -5
the only beef that i may have with timmins this draft year is his stating that they're trying to hit homeruns. i don't see pacioretty having homerun potential, they got their man with the #12 pick and i think they should have went with a player that has potential to be a star or bust with the #22 pick. Exactly. After getting the guy they wanted with McDonagh, I'm still struggling with why they didn't move up to #19 to draft Esposito. The obviously didn't like him but scouts have been wrong before. The cost would have been Pacioretty plus maybe the 3rd round pick that turned into Olivier Fortier. Do they like Pacioretty THAT much? If nothing else, Espo was a great "value" pick at #19 in a weak draft. All I can say is Espo better be a bust for Gainey and Timmins sake. For this to work out Pacioretty needs to turn into another Shayne Corson, but I can just as easily see another Jason Ward.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2007 12:20:21 GMT -5
I like the North American content. Six of seven were NA picks last year and so far all NA this year, except for one Swiss-born player.
Like it.
Cheers.
Edit: And no sooner than I speak, les Habs draft a Swede, Nichlas Torp
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Post by franko on Jun 23, 2007 12:36:52 GMT -5
Scenario one: Espo becomes an average player with average stats. Niether here nor there. Scenario two: Espo is a bust. Gainey is a genius. Scenario three: fear factor -- Espo plays with Crosby and wins the Calder and has a massive scoring punch. HA, Doc, and other say "see what we coulda had?". Except . . . where is our Crosby feeding him passes and being fed? If Espo makes it next season (or in three) he does well because of his teammates. He wouldn't be the man here that he is there.
Nope . . I'm happy with a solid d-man at #12 and could care less we missed him at #22.
As to the rest of the draft? Does it really matter? Hopefully there is a diamond in the rough somewhere.
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Post by habmeister on Jun 23, 2007 12:52:26 GMT -5
Scenario one: Espo becomes an average player with average stats. Niether here nor there. Scenario two: Espo is a bust. Gainey is a genius. Scenario three: fear factor -- Espo plays with Crosby and wins the Calder and has a massive scoring punch. HA, Doc, and other say "see what we coulda had?". Except . . . where is our Crosby feeding him passes and being fed? If Espo makes it next season (or in three) he does well because of his teammates. He wouldn't be the man here that he is there. Nope . . I'm happy with a solid d-man at #12 and could care less we missed him at #22. As to the rest of the draft? Does it really matter? Hopefully there is a diamond in the rough somewhere. i agree franko, as far as the rest of the draft, don't forget we got gui in the 2nd round, emelin and valentenko, maxwell, grabovski, halak, carle, the list goes on of quality prospects that timmins and co. have gotten after round 1. its nice that we had so many picks in the first 5 rounds. hamilton's cupboard is on the verge of overflowing with almost every pick lately being a quality one that has a shot at moving to the ahl.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 23, 2007 12:52:52 GMT -5
I'm getting the impression this draft was more about passing on Esposito than anything else.
I think we drafted 8 other players, but I haven't the final draft page yet.
Cheers.
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Post by habmeister on Jun 23, 2007 13:17:42 GMT -5
Time to add my two rubles: 1. CHI - Patrick Kane - slowly becoming the consensus #1 2. PHI - James VR - big guy like the old days, also darn good skill 3. PHO - Kyle Turris - he shoots, he skates, he goes to the Dogs 4. LA - Jakub Voracek - good skill, grit and work ethic, and will add to a nice group of young players in LA 5. WSH - Karl Alzner - best rated Dman for a team short of a lot of top end players at this point 6. EDM - Alexei Cherepanov - yeah, the Russian thing but he is so slick and almost NHL ready, with three picks they can gamble on a home run with one 7. CBJ - Sam Gagner - playmaker extraordinaire, great puckhandling 8. BOS - Angelo Esposito - its not always about the last name, but they did turn Kessel into a player when he dropped - Gainey smiles but only inside! 9. STL - Logan Couture - a bad bout of mono hurt him early, but the kid has character and earned his keep under the watchful eye of "Killer", although skating is a little slow 10. FLO - Keaton Ellerby - great skater, a bit of a question about his hockey sense, but they hope he is the mini Bo 11. CAR - Zach Hamill - those great WHL stats don't lie and his smaller stature does not scare them off one bit 12. MTL - Ryan McDonagh - two straight Mr Hockey picks for the Habs, but this guy has the complete package and more beef than Fischer at the same age 13. TOR - Lars Eller - they have been talking to him a lot apparently, and he has speed, skill and size...a gap for the Leafs 14. COL - Kevin Shattenkirk - they have done fine before picking smaller, smooth skating, puck handling Dmen in the past and do so again 15. EDM - Nick Petrecki - big, gritty defender who plays C Mac's style of in your face defense a la Jason Smith and Staios 16. ANA - Logan MacMillan - big mover up the rankings since mid season and Anaheim likes versatile two way forwards 17. NYR - Brandon Sutter - Uncle was ready to call his name next, but the Rags have to like his character, his size, and his two way play 18. CAL - Colton Gillies - they do like their picks from the WHL, and here is a guy who can skate and forecheck a la Calgary Flames 19. MIN - Ian Cole - the U-18's were a major coming out for this young American and his stock has been zooming since 20. PIT - Brett MacLean - sure he had the best linemate in the CHL this past year, but scouts see past that and he earns this call on his own merit - some pretty good young linemates on his new team too 21. PHO - Billy Sweatt - speed kills and the fastest guy in the draft has some questions about his finishing at a higher level, but did I mention speed kills in the NHL these days 22. MTL - Max Pacioretty - big good skating forward from the USHL is too tough to pass by 23. NAS - David Perron - an incredible run during the playoffs did his stock wonders, a really solid finisher 24. STL - Mickael Backlund - injuries hampered his progress but he has a pretty well rounded package 25. VAN - Oscar Moller - they like Swedish skilled guys and this one played in their back yard in Chilliwack 26. STL - Jonathon Blum - two forwards already in the first, so they go balance and get a decent offensive defender with some nice overall game - will need to fill out before making the next step 27. DET - Simon Hjalmarsson - late picks, no problems, this smaller guy has skills and good wheels, a nice fit in Detroit 28. WSH - Maxim Mayorov - they got their Dman with their early pick and get a really skilled forward with their second and plan on using the AO factor to get him over here within two years 29. OTT - Thomas Hickey - good solid skater with some decent offensive skills on the blueline, a little in the Ottawa mould 30. EDM - Patrick White - good offensive and generally quite good in both ends of the ice, which will make for a nice balanced third first rounder for the Oil the winning list, the CSB and ISS are looking to interview you for a job, you interested?
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Post by vin on Jun 23, 2007 13:19:06 GMT -5
3rd round: Draft this guy: MAXIM MAYOROV Ranked in the 20's and the 2nd best russian. The Hockey News magazine that i'm reading had him at 14.He went 94th to Columbus.That's a big drop off.Even Toronto with their 1st pick,74th overall passed him by.
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