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Post by BadCompany on Jan 25, 2007 9:32:26 GMT -5
According to the Team 990 this morning, a "very, very, very strong source" has called them from the Dallas airport and told them that Montreal is the front-runner to land Peter Forsberg, offering "a mid-level player and a 1st round pick."
Detroit, Anaheim, San Jose and Colorado are also apparently in the mix.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 25, 2007 10:08:34 GMT -5
A mid-level player, eh? Well that sort of narrows it down to about ... lets see ... 3/4 of the team ...  It will be expensive but it answers the question you asked earlier in the season ... do we go for it now? Go get 'em Bob! Cheers. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 25, 2007 10:21:19 GMT -5
The team getting Forsgberg will be showing their hand....i.e. going for it. And so, they're going to have to protect him against thuggery...as he's shown to be made of china in recent years. The opposition will want him out of the picture. Would we have him skating with Downey? Too much to ask of rookie Lats to provide some beef. Forsberg has taken care of himself all these years...he's been quite possibly the best all-round forward in the league when he's been healthy....but I think he needs the uber goon HA talks about as an insurance policy at this stage, if he's going to truly help a team. It's bad enough that Kovalev has to endure shots at his knees without payback....(or penalty calls  ...they gotta get rid of that instigator rule...but that's another topic.) |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 25, 2007 10:30:15 GMT -5
A mid-level player AND a 1st round pick? For a guy about to go UFA? Yikes! I would love to make the pick contingent on whether or not Montreal re-signs him or if Forsberg retires. We all know what Forsberg is capable of when healthy but that's a pretty steep price for a rental player. But I'm not surprised that's the ask: Philly is in the catbird seat with plenty of desperate teams willing to trade for Forsberg and the worst case scenario for them is do nothing and use his expired contract next year to sign more players.
If we're talking a 1st round pick, they obviously need to take a good look at the draft to see what kind of talent will be available in the bottom third of the 1st round. If 2007 is shaping up to be a so-so draft - with little difference between a late 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick then I would swallow hard and do it.
Perezhogin/Plekanec, Niinimaa and a 1st for Forsberg? We would need to send a contract the other way to avoid the cap issues, no?
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 25, 2007 10:52:01 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is that Forsberg has to waive his no-trade clause to go anywhere. If it's true that Anaheim, San Jose and Detroit are also in the running, he may refuse to come to Montreal, under the assumption that he has a much better chance of winning the Cup with one of those three teams, than he does with Montreal. On the other hand, if he does go to one of those three, he also stands a much better chance of being knocked out of the playoffs by one of the other two. Whereas in Montreal he would (hopefully) have an easier path to the Finals, as the East isn't as strong as the West.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jan 25, 2007 10:54:31 GMT -5
I say we go for it.
Assuming we can add Forsberg without giving up much off the current roster (let's say Perezhogin + 1st), we'll i'd say that would make us as good as any team in the East.
I'm not overly concerned with giving up a 1st. Heck Nashville gave up a 1st last year for Brendan Witt! The Habs basically got 2-4 first rounders (in terms of talent) last year (Fischer,Maxwell,White, Carle) and 2 the year before (Price,Lats). With our pending UFA's and a deep talent pool, nows as good a time as any to make a run.
Chris Higgins-Peter Forsberg-Alex Kovalev
Guillaume Latendresse-Saku Koivu-Michael Ryder
Sergei Samsonov-Radek Bonk-Mike Johnson
Maxim Lapierre-Tomas Plekanec-Mark Streit
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Post by Skilly on Jan 25, 2007 10:59:11 GMT -5
Perezhogin/Plekanec, Niinimaa and a 1st for Forsberg? We would need to send a contract the other way to avoid the cap issues, no? Two actually. Forsberg's cap hit is 5.75 million. Therefore, since the NHL season has 186 days, he would cost $31,000 a day. Estimates have the Habs with about $600,000 to $500,000 cap room right now. So if we moved no one than we could only play him for 19 days. At the trade deadline there would be 38 days remaining in the season, so we would need to move a salary. This "mid-level" player can only be one of two people, Perezhogin or Begin. It can't be Plekanec becuase he only makes $450,000 and curently has about $170,000 left on his contract ...not enough to make up the difference. But I question this trade ... I dont think we have enough cap space unless we send two players to Philly, and why would they want Niinimaa? I'd prefer if it was Begin (1.057M), and we called up Lapierre again. The fourth line would be Perezhogin-Lapierre-Plekanec. Looking at Perezhogin. He makes $627,000. With approx. 70 days left in the season, we'd be sending $236,000 to Philly, and getting $2.1 M in return .... the difference is 1.84 M. Cant be done yet. Looking at Begin. He makes 1.057M. With approx 70 days left in the season, we'd be sending $398,000 to Philly and getting 2.1 million in return ... the difference is 1.7 M ... can't be done yet. At the trade deadline though it can be done with the right player. There would be 38 days left in the season. Perezhogin $128,000 left on his contract, Forsberg will have 1.17M .... difference is over a million so it con't be done without another player. Begin would have $216,000 left .... 1.17-0.216 = 0.954 and we have at most $600,000 left in the kitty. We may be the front runner ... but one thing is for sure, this "mid level player" has to make at least 2.5 million to lose only one player of our roster. So that could only be Samsonov, Kovalev, Koivu, Rivet or Huet - which of them is a mid level player? Unless, Timmins lied when he said we have $700,000 cap space left in his interview ... |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 25, 2007 11:17:04 GMT -5
It may be flattery but Samsonov IMO is a mid-level player.
Plekanec-Forsberg-Kovalev. I could live with that. Maybe even Latendresse-Forsberg-Kovalev (that line seems to carry more weight).
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Post by ropoflu on Jan 25, 2007 11:21:11 GMT -5
It may be flattery but Samsonov IMO is a mid-level player. Plekanec-Forsberg-Kovalev. I could live with that. Maybe even Latendresse-Forsberg-Kovalev (that line seems to carry more weight). Ok that's it. Now, I'm drooling. |
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Post by blny on Jan 25, 2007 11:24:01 GMT -5
Define mid level player. Is it a Perezhogin/Plekanec? Is it a Ryder? From my POV, Ryder would likely be the targeted player. We'd be dealing from a position of numbers, if not strength. He has marquee to a degree. Neither player has a contractual obligation for next year. Philly would have Ryder's rights for another year (if only signed for one). IMO, Ryder and a first would be too much. I'd want to decrease the value of that pick.
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Post by ropoflu on Jan 25, 2007 11:27:26 GMT -5
Define mid level player. Is it a Perezhogin/Plekanec? Is it a Ryder? From my POV, Ryder would likely be the targeted player. We'd be dealing from a position of numbers, if not strength. He has marquee to a degree. Neither player has a contractual obligation for next year. Philly would have Ryder's rights for another year (if only signed for one). IMO, Ryder and a first would be too much. I'd want to decrease the value of that pick. The pick could be conditional to us re-signing Forsberg. A 1st if he stays, a second if he walks. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 25, 2007 11:28:16 GMT -5
It may be flattery but Samsonov IMO is a mid-level player. Ahhh ... if, if, if ... I think the Flyers could be convinced to take Samsonov off the Habs' hands. But, I wonder if they'd have to sweeten the pot a little more since we're not talking Perezhogin or some other problem-free mid-level player. Bless me! I think pairing him with Forsberg would motivate Kovalev to new hights. Cheers. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 25, 2007 11:35:02 GMT -5
It may be flattery but Samsonov IMO is a mid-level player. Ahhh ... if, if, if ... I think the Flyers could be convinced to take Samsonov off the Habs' hands. But, I wonder if they'd have to sweeten the pot a little more since we're not talking Perezhogin or some other problem-free mid-level player. Samsonov seems to meet the performance and salary requirements to go to Philly. BLNY: I see three tiers of players - stars, mid-level, and the proletariat. Samsonov isn't a star, neither is he a worker. Not to mention the great crash-course Latendresse would get. Under that scenario the Habs number two line could well become the number one line. |
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Post by blny on Jan 25, 2007 11:54:04 GMT -5
1a and 1b  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 25, 2007 11:59:18 GMT -5
The pick could be conditional to us re-signing Forsberg. A 1st if he stays, a second if he walks. This is similar to the Kovalev deal a few years back. And I remember the Rangers saying that the best offer they had for Kovalev came from the Habs. Would be good if this were the scenario again. Cheers. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 25, 2007 12:01:49 GMT -5
Just buzzing around Spector’s and it looks like Forsberg’s right foot is in pretty bad shape and the guy is playing with constant pain that isn’t going to get any better. I’m sure any trade would be subject to Forsberg passing a thorough physical but if he’s already damaged goods….
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 25, 2007 12:06:39 GMT -5
Just buzzing around Spector’s and it looks like Forsberg’s right foot is in pretty bad shape and the guy is playing with constant pain that isn’t going to get any better. I’m sure any trade would be subject to Forsberg passing a thorough physical but if he’s already damaged goods…. Pretty important information, BH, thanks. You'd think that would annul any deal unless the gaining side signs a waiver. I had read he was damaged goods but I didn't know to what extent. Big risk just got bigger. Cheers. |
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Post by Marvin on Jan 25, 2007 12:20:31 GMT -5
No thanks, I'll pass.
As great a player as he once was, these days Forsberg spends more time on the DL than on the ice. At this stage in his career he is more of a risk than anything else. Unless he costs us minimal player(s), I'm not willing to take the risk.
Of course there's always that lure of what a healthy Peter Forsberg can do to a team come playoff time.
Marv
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Post by HFTO on Jan 25, 2007 12:56:09 GMT -5
Healthy Forsberg would be a great help especially if they could find room to resign him.The cost is pretty steep especialy if the Habs fail miserably.Anything can happen but I'm not quite sure Forsberg unless he gets a new ankle is enough to put the Habs over the top IMO the Habs need some more grit up front and help on D in addition o a healthy Forsberg.
HFTO
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 25, 2007 13:17:57 GMT -5
True that Forsberg has been hobbled by an assortment of injuries this season, yet he has played 31 games and gone 8-20-28 for a godawful team. Latendresse (definitely) and Kovalev (if he elects to, uh, simplify his game) could diminish the need for him to go looking for trouble the puck. The Habs, with Livingston, Rynbend and Mulder, have one of the best physio-/medical support teams in the league.
I think it would be nuts to pass up a guy who, over his career, has averaged 1.26 PPG during the regular season and 1.17 in the playoffs.
Samsonov and a pick and Peter's your center. Make it so.
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Post by BadCompany on Jan 25, 2007 13:24:54 GMT -5
As Mr. Good Water says, it should be noted that despite playing on the worst team in the league, the injured, crippled, unmotivated, ineffective Forsberg still has 28 points in 31 games. His .90 points per game ratio would lead the Habs.
It is a gamble, because you don't know if he is going to suit up or not, but IF he does dress and make it to the ice, he is still a very good player who would help us. A big if, of course, but that's the reason why the asking price may be a "mid-level player and a 1st", and not "a mid-to-upper level player, a top prospect and a 1st."
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 25, 2007 13:45:32 GMT -5
From the Delaware County Times: The rumors surrounding the possible trading of Peter Forsberg continued to swirl down in Dallas were the who’s who of hockey are gathered. With up to a dozen teams possibly interested in acquiring the Flyers captain, the frontrunners in the bidding appear to be the New York Rangers, Montreal and Detroit. The Flyers may choose to pass on any offers for Forsberg and try to re-sign their franchise player before he becomes eligible for free agency July 1. Or, they could move him to a contender, pick up a player and a draft pick, or something similar, and then try to sign Forsberg anyway after he becomes unrestricted in July. * From the Detroit News:
Forsberg free-for-allThe annual mating dance that precedes the NHL's trade deadline (Feb. 27 this year) appears to have begun in earnest. Reports out of Philadelphia this weekend indicated the Flyers are listening to offers for free agent-to-be Peter Forsberg . As many as a dozen teams have called Philadelphia general manager Paul Holmgren , with the New York Rangers among the most obvious suitors for the Flyers' captain at this point. The Rangers, looking for a second-line center to pair with slumping Brendan Shanahan , appear willing to part with young center Petr Prucha , who has struggled this season after scoring 30 goals last year as a rookie. Rangers GM Glen Sather also is looking at the Los Angeles Kings' Craig Conroy and Vancouver's Brendan Morrison . Forsberg has a no-trade clause, but assuming he can find some answers about his nagging foot problems -- he flew home to Sweden to visit more specialists this week -- he sounds willing to waive that right to go to a Stanley Cup contender. And Holmgren recently admitted if he and Forsberg's agent, can't make progress on a contract extension soon, "We might just be inclined to roll the dice" and trade him. "I haven't thought about it," Forsberg said. "It's still a month-and-a-half before the deadline. I don't think I would go to a team in 15th place or 14th place. But I need to get my foot a little better before I can start thinking about that." |
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Post by duster on Jan 25, 2007 14:14:54 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about the whole idea since I have my doubts as to the Habs being a serious contender this year even with an injured Forsberg in the lineup. Don't get me wrong, Forsberg has been my favourite player for a long time. Now, if Gainey's plan also includes acquiring a solid and reliable defenseman, that's a different matter.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 25, 2007 15:33:32 GMT -5
Somehow last minute trades for playoff rushes with no intention of long term signings is not the way to run a competative league.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 25, 2007 15:39:36 GMT -5
Somehow last minute trades for playoff rushes with no intention of long term signings is not the way to run a competative league. Remember, this is the market-savvy NHL we're talking about. Damn the trap and full steam ahead! |
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Post by habmeister on Jan 25, 2007 16:38:40 GMT -5
i love forsberg, but we have a team full of passers, we need a shooter more than a playmaker, imo.
having said that if you can deal pleks and a 1st round conditional on us making the conference final then i'd do it.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 25, 2007 17:49:05 GMT -5
i love forsberg, but we have a team full of passers, we need a shooter more than a playmaker, imo. having said that if you can deal pleks and a 1st round conditional on us making the conference final then i'd do it. Latendresse hasn't seemed shy about directing the puck or himself at the net. And Kovalev, if he should ever simplify his game, has a more than serviceable shot. |
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Post by Skilly on Jan 25, 2007 18:46:37 GMT -5
Define mid level player. Is it a Perezhogin/Plekanec? Is it a Ryder? From my POV, Ryder would likely be the targeted player. We'd be dealing from a position of numbers, if not strength. He has marquee to a degree. Neither player has a contractual obligation for next year. Philly would have Ryder's rights for another year (if only signed for one). IMO, Ryder and a first would be too much. I'd want to decrease the value of that pick. Who is the second player going to Philly? Ryder and a pick won't do it. Forsberg = 5.75M / 186 * 38 = $1,174,731 Ryder = 2.2M / 186 * 38 = $449,462 The difference is $725,269. Timmins himself said they had somewhere around $700,000, before they brought up Lapierre and Grabovski. Lapierre = 562,500 /186 * 31 = $93,750 Grabovski = 675,000 / 186 * 4 = $14,516 Sooooooooo ..... if Timmins estimate of $700,000 was accurate in that interview that was posted here, we should be somewhere around $700,000 - $108,000 = $592,000 ..... so even if it was around $750,000 it is now around $650,000 ..... Ryder + who? + pick. |
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Post by CentreHice on Jan 25, 2007 18:53:25 GMT -5
Define mid level player. Is it a Perezhogin/Plekanec? Is it a Ryder? From my POV, Ryder would likely be the targeted player. We'd be dealing from a position of numbers, if not strength. He has marquee to a degree. Neither player has a contractual obligation for next year. Philly would have Ryder's rights for another year (if only signed for one). IMO, Ryder and a first would be too much. I'd want to decrease the value of that pick. Who is the second player going to Philly? Ryder and a pick won't do it. Forsberg = 5.75M / 186 * 38 = $1,174,731 Ryder = 2.2M / 186 * 38 = $449,462 The difference is $725,269. Timmins himself said they had somewhere around $700,000, before they brought up Lapierre and Grabovski. Lapierre = 562,500 /186 * 31 = $93,750 Grabovski = 675,000 / 186 * 4 = $14,516 Sooooooooo ..... if Timmins estimate of $700,000 was accurate in that interview that was posted here, we should be somewhere around $700,000 - $108,000 = $592,000 ..... so even if it was around $750,000 it is now around $650,000 ..... Ryder + who? + pick. I hope Ryder isn't involved in any move. He seems like a lifelong Hab to me. He's young with a lot of upside....a pure sniper...not beyond coaching. Put him with Forsberg and watch the pucks go into the net. Peter would find him in a phonebooth. Trotttier to Bossy. Bang. |
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Post by habmeister on Jan 25, 2007 20:11:16 GMT -5
i love forsberg, but we have a team full of passers, we need a shooter more than a playmaker, imo. having said that if you can deal pleks and a 1st round conditional on us making the conference final then i'd do it. Latendresse hasn't seemed shy about directing the puck or himself at the net. And Kovalev, if he should ever simplify his game, has a more than serviceable shot. definetly lats is a sniper, so is ryder, kovalev has the ability, but i could coach a 12 year old goaltender to know that kovalev will shoot everytime from the goalies left faceoff circle and try to score top shelf, just come out a bit and he has nothing to shoot at. perez well the book is still out on him, great shot, but not effective, sam as samsonov. higgins is 2-way, koivu is more of a setupman, although this year he's tickling the twine more than previous seasons. or at least it seems like it. i mean a 30-50 goal guy, with true top flight snipers being at the 40+ range. |
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...they gotta get rid of that instigator rule...but that's another topic.)
