Subban

[jkr]

Dec 18, 2017 10:11:25 GMT -5 frozone said:

Dec 18, 2017 7:23:53 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

I just watched After Hours from the Preds Nucks game and it was Scott Oake and PK. What a class act... still respectful to habs ownership... no comment on management. Doing community work in Nashville and Montreal children's hospital.

www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/hours-subban-turris-montreal-nashville/

So I still don't get it... there's a bunch of people out there that hate this guy?? I'm never going to understand that.

Thanks for the link WD. That was an excellent interview.

I used to think it was because he played for Montreal. Now I'm not sure what it's all about. I hate to think the worst of people but there aren't a lot of reasons left.

[blny]

Dec 18, 2017 12:05:33 GMT -5 jkr said:

Dec 18, 2017 10:11:25 GMT -5 frozone said:

So I still don't get it... there's a bunch of people out there that hate this guy?? I'm never going to understand that.

Thanks for the link WD. That was an excellent interview.

I used to think it was because he played for Montreal. Now I'm not sure what it's all about. I hate to think the worst of people but there aren't a lot of reasons left.

I truly believe it's rooted in the colour of his skin. The hate started with a few choice words from Mike Richards in 2010, talking about how Subban, as a rookie, didn't show the proper respect to guys who'd been around a while. Cherry ran with it, and put a bounty on his head. Does anyone think that Sean Avery came into the league and suddenly learned to chirp? He came in the same player he was for the duration. No one said a thing about him having to bide his time. Of course, Mike Richards talking about showing respect to fellow players is a crock. He didn't show much when he nearly ended David Booth's career with a head shot. But, that's just a hockey play gone wrong.

[Willie Dog]

Dec 18, 2017 12:56:18 GMT -5 blny said:

Dec 18, 2017 12:05:33 GMT -5 jkr said:

I used to think it was because he played for Montreal. Now I'm not sure what it's all about. I hate to think the worst of people but there aren't a lot of reasons left.

I truly believe it's rooted in the colour of his skin. The hate started with a few choice words from Mike Richards in 2010, talking about how Subban, as a rookie, didn't show the proper respect to guys who'd been around a while. Cherry ran with it, and put a bounty on his head. Does anyone think that Sean Avery came into the league and suddenly learned to chirp? He came in the same player he was for the duration. No one said a thing about him having to bide his time. Of course, Mike Richards talking about showing respect to fellow players is a crock. He didn't show much when he nearly ended David Booth's career with a head shot. But, that's just a hockey play gone wrong.

Mike Richards is a loser who didn't like the fact PK didn't take his bullSaperlipopette.

[folatre]

Strange that a smart businessman would sign off on a deal that moves a charismatic superstar who helped sell ever more expensive game tickets, win playoff series, and even keep a bad Priceless team relevant in 2015-16. And the superstar loved the city back. Wait a second, a supposedly smart guy with an MBA from a prestigious university would listen to two high school dropouts like Marc Bergevin and Mike Therrien?

[Willie Dog]

More charity work in Nashville.. and he didn't forget the Montreal children's hospital.

www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/p-k-subban-spreads-christmas-cheer-dressed-75-year-old-man/

[CentreHice]

Seems to be little interest in the All-Star Game, so I'll put the rosters here, seeing as the captain of the Central Division is.....for the second straight season....

* Denotes Team Captain

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Atlantic Division:
Andrei Vasilevskiy, G, Tampa Bay Lightning
Carey Price, G, Montreal Canadiens
Victor Hedman, D, Tampa Bay Lightning
Erik Karlsson, D, Ottawa Senators
Mike Green, D, Detroit Red Wings
Steven Stamkos, F, Tampa Bay Lightning*
Nikita Kucherov, F, Tampa Bay Lightning
Auston Matthews, F, Toronto Maple Leafs
Aleksander Barkov, F, Florida Panthers
Brad Marchand, F, Boston Bruins
Jack Eichel, F, Buffalo Sabres

Metro Division:
Henrik Lundqvist, G, New York Rangers
Braden Holtby, G, Washington Capitals
Seth Jones, D, Columbus Blue Jackets
Noah Hanifin, D, Carolina Hurricanes
Kris Letang, D, Pittsburgh Penguins
Alex Ovechkin, F, Washington Capitals*
Taylor Hall, F, New Jersey Devils
Sidney Crosby, F, Pittsburgh Penguins
John Tavares, F, New York Islanders
Josh Bailey, F, New York Islanders
Claude Giroux, F, Philadelphia Flyers

Central Division:
Pekka Rinne, G, Nashville Predators
Connor Hellebuyck, G, Winnipeg Jets
P.K. Subban, D, Nashville Predators*
Alex Pietrangelo, D, St. Louis Blues
John Klingberg, D, Dallas Stars
Patrick Kane, F, Chicago Blackhawks
Nathan MacKinnon, F, Colorado Avalanche
Blake Wheeler, F, Winnipeg Jets
Brayden Schenn, F, St. Louis Blues
Eric Staal, F, Minnesota Wild
Tyler Seguin, F, Dallas Stars

Pacific Division:
Jonathan Quick, G, Los Angeles Kings
Marc-Andre Fleury, G, Vegas Golden Knights
Drew Doughty, D, Los Angeles Kings
Brent Burns, D, San Jose Sharks
Oliver Ekman-Larsson, D, Arizona Coyotes
Connor McDavid, F, Edmonton Oilers*
Johnny Gaudreau, F, Calgary Flames
Brock Boeser, F, Vancouver Canucks
James Neal, F, Vegas Golden Knights
Rickard Rakell, F, Anaheim Ducks
Anze Kopitar, F, Los Angeles Kings


================================

NHL.com (Resentful Habs' fans stuffing the ballot box? Voting process: Fans will be permitted to select as few as one player and a maximum of four players per ballot. The maximum number of ballots cast per 24-hour period for each fan is 10. )

He - and you - have done it again.

For the second consecutive season, Nashville Predators defenseman P.K. Subban has been named captain of the Central Division All-Star team, as determined by the NHL All-Star Fan Vote, with the blueliner receiving the most votes of any Central Division player.

Subban made history last season when he became the first Predators player to be named captain of an NHL All-Star Team. NHL fans voted for their favorite players in each division to be named captain of their squads, with Subban leading the voting results in the Central throughout the process over the past month.

"It means a lot - very few athletes get to have not just the support of their own fanbase, but a global fanbase as well, and I'm very happy considering that I've heard more boos in other arenas than cheers," Subban smiled. "But it's a great honor, and I'm pretty happy to hear that I have the support of a lot of hockey fans."

Joining Subban as captains of their respective divisions are Connor McDavid of the Edmonton Oilers (Pacific), Alexander Ovechkin of the Washington Capitals (Metropolitan) and Steven Stamkos of the host Tampa Bay Lightning (Atlantic).

"I'm just excited to represent our team again," Subban said. "The Predators have given me so much opportunity since coming here, and I'm just happy to make the best of it."

Subban and his Central Division teammates will compete at the 2018 NHL All-Star Weekend in Tampa Bay, Florida, on Jan. 27-28. This will be Subban's third consecutive appearance at NHL All-Star Weekend, with his first nod coming in Nashville during the 2016 All-Star festivities.

For the third straight year, the 2018 Honda NHL® All-Star Game will once again feature the 3-on-3 All-Star Tournament, showcasing the NHL's most talented star players from each division. The All-Star Tournament will feature three 20-minute games, with star players from each Division making up the four All-Star teams: Pacific, Central, Atlantic, and Metropolitan. Each team will be made up of 11 players from each Division: six forwards, three defensemen and two goaltenders.

The remaining players who will comprise the four All-Star rosters will be determined by the National Hockey League Hockey Operations Department and announced on Wednesday, Jan. 10.

[seventeen]

I get more excitement out of a catnap than the all-star game. Haven't watched it for ages, don't plan to. It might suit kids who have never seen all their favourite players together at one time, but there are so many flaws to it as a competitive endeavour that I find it excruciatingly boring. Where's that bowling channel?

[The Habitual Fan]

For anyone that is interested PK (The Brand) Subban will be the guest on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah Wednesday night, Jan 24th. It is on Comedy Central in Canada.

www.nhl.com/news/pk-subban-will-appear-on-daily-show-with-trevor-noah/c-295112272

[Disgruntled70sHab]

[franko]

Jan 24, 2018 17:28:02 GMT -5 Disgruntled70sHab said:

the tweet is irrelevant, because he wouldn't have that many points if he were with the Habs.

[seventeen]

Might have more.

[franko]

Jan 24, 2018 19:07:26 GMT -5 seventeen said:

Might have more.

are you kidding me? even CJ is d-first.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 24, 2018 7:16:58 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

For anyone that is interested PK (The Brand) Subban will be the guest on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah Wednesday night, Jan 24th. It is on Comedy Central in Canada.

www.nhl.com/news/pk-subban-will-appear-on-daily-show-with-trevor-noah/c-295112272

And I can bet he will be eloquent, charming and a great representative for the NHL and when he retires he'll become an Ambassador for the NHL and the Preds.. He should have been an ambassador for the Habs but dumb(GM) and dumber(MB) and dumberer(MT) took care of that.


Thanks for posting this HF... I'll record it and watch it tomorrow.

[Cranky]

Jan 24, 2018 20:10:00 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

Jan 24, 2018 7:16:58 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

For anyone that is interested PK (The Brand) Subban will be the guest on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah Wednesday night, Jan 24th. It is on Comedy Central in Canada.

www.nhl.com/news/pk-subban-will-appear-on-daily-show-with-trevor-noah/c-295112272

And I can bet he will be eloquent, charming and a great representative for the NHL and when he retires he'll become an Ambassador for the NHL and the Preds.. He should have been an ambassador for the Habs but dumb(GM) and dumber(MB) and dumberer(MT) took care of that.


Thanks for posting this HF... I'll record it and watch it tomorrow.

Watch our shame? Give me your address so I can send you one of this.....I'll keep the remote control.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF9hJrQ52NU

[Willie Dog]

Jan 24, 2018 20:36:16 GMT -5 Cranky said:

Jan 24, 2018 20:10:00 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

And I can bet he will be eloquent, charming and a great representative for the NHL and when he retires he'll become an Ambassador for the NHL and the Preds.. He should have been an ambassador for the Habs but dumb(GM) and dumber(MB) and dumberer(MT) took care of that.


Thanks for posting this HF... I'll record it and watch it tomorrow.

Watch our shame? Give me your address so I can send you one of this.....I'll keep the remote control.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF9hJrQ52NU

No shame Cranky... I didn't trade him...

You need to send one to each of the three dumb-igos listed above.. and you can keep the remotes.

[Willie Dog]

Jan 24, 2018 20:10:00 GMT -5 Willie Dog said:

Jan 24, 2018 7:16:58 GMT -5 The Habitual Fan said:

For anyone that is interested PK (The Brand) Subban will be the guest on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah Wednesday night, Jan 24th. It is on Comedy Central in Canada.

www.nhl.com/news/pk-subban-will-appear-on-daily-show-with-trevor-noah/c-295112272

And I can bet he will be eloquent, charming and a great representative for the NHL and when he retires he'll become an Ambassador for the NHL and the Preds.. He should have been an ambassador for the Habs but dumb(GM) and dumber(MB) and dumberer(MT) took care of that.


Thanks for posting this HF... I'll record it and watch it tomorrow.

Just watched it and he was charming, eloquent and a great representative for the Preds and the NHL is promoting him whenever they can... The backward ass NHL saw this potential but the Foxholers didn't?... and the Preds ownership group must be smiling ear to ear... this guy is a marketing dream with the work he's doing for disadvantaged kids in Nashville. They set up a program where disadvantaged kids go to a hockey game with a cop... it helps build bridges, introduces kids who would most likely never see a hockey game to get to a game and gives kids a positive view of police officers. Afterwards the kids get to go into the dressing room and meet the players... PK never stops impressing me... He was raised right.

[mikeg]

New reporting from Arpon Basu in the Athletic today:

The Canadiens were interested in comparing Weber to Subban long before The Trade
By Arpon Basu 3 hours ago

It was called a coincidence, and everything indicates that is indeed the case.

But man, what a doozy of a coincidence.

With P.K. Subban and the Nashville Predators back in Montreal to face the Canadiens on Saturday, The Trade is back on the front burner in town. That trade. The trade that will never die. The trade that seemingly came out of nowhere. Or did it?

It is the defining moment of Marc Bergevin’s time as Canadiens general manager, at least so far, but most probably forever. The Predators have thrived with Subban and he has thrived with the Predators. The Canadiens have not thrived with Shea Weber, even though Weber has personally thrived with the Canadiens.

The Trade has been discussed to death and many in Montreal are sick of hearing about it because Canadiens fans are basically in two camps; those who support the team at all costs and who have forgotten Subban existed on one side, those who loved Subban and will never forget that their favourite team traded him away on the other.

But among all the discussion surrounding The Trade, a new element has emerged, one that seemingly had no impact on what ultimately happened, but one that is incredible nonetheless.

Prior to The Trade, the Canadiens analytics consultant at the time, Matt Pfeffer, argued to keep Subban, as Sportsnet’s Eric Engels first reported. His recommendation was ultimately ignored, and his contract was not renewed by the Canadiens. Pfeffer was subsequently hired by the Predators.

What was not widely known was that the Canadiens had commissioned a report seeking a comparison of Weber and Subban from a hockey analytics provider a month prior to The Trade, a report dated a day before the trade was consummated. The Athletic has acquired that report.



According to a Canadiens source, the report was simply meant as a way to evaluate the analytics provider for an eventual contract with the team, seemingly to replace Pfeffer. The provider was ultimately not retained by the Canadiens, the source said. The Athletic agreed not to reveal the name of the analytics provider in order to get confirmation of the circumstances that surrounded the report.

Requesting a comparison between Subban and Weber, the source explained, was based on the fact Subban was not selected to play on Canada’s entry for the World Cup of Hockey and Weber was, a decision Bergevin took part in as part of Canada’s management team for the tournament held prior to the 2016-17 season. It was topical and seemed like a good way to test a potential contractor.



That mandate is clear throughout the report, which compares the two defencemen to the average Team Canada defenceman in several metrics and clearly states in the report summary why one defenceman would be a better fit on the team than the other.

That defenceman was Weber.

“When selecting Team Canada, Subban's value would be viewed for his offensive statistics and his defensive statistics would be a concern for evaluators,” the report stated. “Weber's value would be predicated on his above average defensive statistics and his quality offensive statistics indicating that he would play a more complete game. It should be noted that while Subban is a very strong passer and possession player, so too are Alex Pietrangelo, Brent Burns, Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty.

“These four players all have better turnover differentials, penalty differentials and are more responsible in not allowing themselves to getting caught pinching up ice as often as Subban.

“The offensive results indicate that Subban does not offer any substantial upside for specialty teams. He would be at least fourth behind Keith, Doughty and Burns on the power play. He would place well back behind Weber, Vlasic and Muzzin for any penalty kill play.”

Team Canada’s roster was named May 27, 2016, and the report given to the Canadiens was dated June 28, 2016, a day before The Trade. According to both Bergevin and Predators general manager David Poile, Weber’s name was first brought up in potential Subban trade talks on June 24, the day of the first round of the 2016 NHL Draft. It would be hard to imagine this 20-page report being produced in four days.

“I don’t think Marc even saw it,” the Canadiens source said.

It should be noted that since the report is only analyzing which defenceman would be better suited for the World Cup – a short, one-time tournament – it is not focused on the long-term ramifications of trading Subban for Weber so it can ignore the four-year disparity in their age and their respective contracts. It is dealing purely in the present.

The report had two divergent views of the two players. On one hand, of the 58 individual metrics the two defencemen were compared in, 29 came out in favour of Weber and 29 in favour of Subban. But there were also 14 more general metrics used to compare the two globally, seven offensive ones and seven defensive ones, and Weber came out ahead in 10 of them; four offensive metrics and six defensive metrics.

Most of the data confirmed what you would expect, such as Weber excelling in puck battles or Subban having the puck on his stick significantly more than Weber, but some of it was surprising. For instance, Weber was more efficient carrying the puck into the offensive zone, though he did so far less frequently than Subban. Or that Subban engaged his opponents physically more often than Weber and was more successful when doing so.

In the end, the report arriving the day before The Trade was indeed a coincidence. A lot happened between the time it was requested and the time it arrived, and talks were already quite advanced by then. But it’s amazing to think something considered a convenient way to test out a potential new contractor actually turned into the biggest Canadiens trade since Patrick Roy.

[CentreHice]

I didn't know the Preds had hired Pfeffer.

Makes sense....


(Mod Note: After Saturday's game, I'll merge this thread with the Subban thread in the Non-Habs section.)

[blny]

Didn't know about Preds signing Pfeffer either, but imo this rehashes what we already knew.

The timing of the report coming out just before the trade may be coincidence, but this story coming the day before the two teams play is not.

The optics surrounding all of this should be all the nails you need to seal a coffin ...

[seventeen]

Feb 9, 2018 13:30:49 GMT -5 CentreHice said:

I didn't know the Preds had hired Pfeffer.

Makes sense....


(Mod Note: After Saturday's game, I'll merge this thread with the Subban thread in the Non-Habs section.)

I read some tweets around this and Andrew Berkshire (who is a distinct critic of Bergevin's as am I) said that he saw the report around the time it was issued and that as he put it,

"A lot of stuff in the report is highly questionable".

I believe he meant it from a statistical viewpoint, but he doesn't elaborate further (it's Twitter and an esoteric subject).

On the Pfeffer hiring, it could be said the Nashville ripped us off twice.

[CentreHice]

Does anyone think Berg wasn't getting updates from this firm in the month leading up to the trade?

Audition scenario, my swampland!

[Willie Dog]

PK takes his Nashville teammates to the Montreal Childrens Hospital

How do you like the taste of that Molson and BurgerBrain???

www.nhl.com/app/predators/news/subban-preds-teammates-visit-montreal-childrens-hospital/c-295792496

[Skilly]

This report directly contradicts everything Pfiffer said, and any analysis that has Vlasic and Muzzin ahead of Subban really needs to be looked at very closely.

[seventeen]

I commissioned a painting once and it turned out well. It was pretty much the way I wanted it to look.

[PTH]

Feb 9, 2018 20:57:49 GMT -5 Skilly said:

This report directly contradicts everything Pfiffer said, and any analysis that has Vlasic and Muzzin ahead of Subban really needs to be looked at very closely.

I see it as a case of wrong benchmarks: on an Olympic team, being reliable is more important than generating offense, so a guy who creates 4 chances but costs you 1 is inferior to the guy who creates 2 and costs 0. The problem is when looking at who you want for 30 minutes on the ice with a lot of spare parts around him, the comparison is completely different.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

[seventeen]

What I recall about that Olympic team is great defense and no offense.

[The Habitual Fan]

Feb 10, 2018 14:53:02 GMT -5 PTH said:

Feb 9, 2018 20:57:49 GMT -5 Skilly said:

This report directly contradicts everything Pfiffer said, and any analysis that has Vlasic and Muzzin ahead of Subban really needs to be looked at very closely.

I see it as a case of wrong benchmarks: on an Olympic team, being reliable is more important than generating offense, so a guy who creates 4 chances but costs you 1 is inferior to the guy who creates 2 and costs 0. The problem is when looking at who you want for 30 minutes on the ice with a lot of spare parts around him, the comparison is completely different.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

I would say it is a guy that created 4 chances but cost you 2 and often at poorly times parts of the game. The bottom line is in a short tournament like that you need to go with the guys you have trust in and at that time Subrand was not in that category.

[Willie Dog]

[Willie Dog]

Pk with 42 assists so far and 16 goals... for a guy who gets 2nd pairing minutes and 2nd pp unit time.

[seventeen]

It's hard to believe NHL's stats page sometimes. In most games, I see that PK has played either the most or 2nd most minutes of the Preds defenders. The guy who seems to split that time with him varies. Sometimes Josi has played a minute more and sometimes Ellis had played a minute more. Ekholm is the guy who plays the least of the 4, but the ice time between them usually isn't different by more than 4 minutes. It's hard to label PK as a second pairing dman, even on Nashville. I think Laviolette distributes ice time depending on if the Preds are leading or trailing. If one added up the ice time over the whole year on a per game basis, I'd put money on PK ending up first and Josi and Ellis very close together for 2nd.

In any case, he's 4 points away from a career high, in probably fewer minutes than his 2014/15 season. Yes, Michel, that's the guy you screamed at all the time and threw under the bus. How's it feel to see him doing so well, in spite of you?