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Post by GNick99 on Jun 9, 2021 6:15:36 GMT -5
What's the old saying? Trades you don't make could be your best ones?
I can remember everybody wanted to trade a package around Koktaniemi for PLD. After playoff Dubois had he could be another Drouin here. Pressure he'd be under.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 9, 2021 10:57:46 GMT -5
What's the old saying? Trades you don't make could be your best ones? I can remember everybody wanted to trade a package around Koktaniemi for PLD. After playoff Dubois had he could be another Drouin here. Pressure he'd be under. I'm sure a lot of the media said that but I don't recall a lot of people on here wanting to move a package including KK. I certainly didn't, our young guys perform in the playoffs, PLD is still MIA, he might down the road but better the bird in hand... |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jun 9, 2021 11:39:49 GMT -5
The problem is, you can't have 1 french canadien on the Habs. You need atleast 3-4 guys. That way there isn't stress on one guy to perform. If your have a team of Drouin, Danault, Dubois and say Giroux, that makes it a lot less pressure on everyone. Drouin might not feel like he has to score every night and it comes more naturally.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 9, 2021 15:15:37 GMT -5
PLD shamelessly laid a giant pile in the middle of the road....for all the world to see.
He was the only Jet I feared and yet, did absolutely nothing.
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Post by GNick99 on Jun 10, 2021 8:04:59 GMT -5
What's the old saying? Trades you don't make could be your best ones? I can remember everybody wanted to trade a package around Koktaniemi for PLD. After playoff Dubois had he could be another Drouin here. Pressure he'd be under. I'm sure a lot of the media said that but I don't recall a lot of people on here wanting to move a package including KK. I certainly didn't, our young guys perform in the playoffs, PLD is still MIA, he might down the road but better the bird in hand... I asked in this thread if posters would trade KK for Dubois. Back in January. Most said they would. Nothing to do with media. |
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Post by Skilly on May 15, 2023 10:34:22 GMT -5
The rumours persist that Montreal do not want Dubois signing for one year with another team , and the Jets are ready to trade PLD this off season .
So, what’s Montreal’s best chance of getting PLD?
Eliotte Friedman has suggested the Jets want a young puck moving defenseman and a first round pick.
Would we get PLD for Harris, Florida’s first rounder and say Sean Farrell? (Or Mesar)
Is that enough? Too much?
Should the Habs try to get him now or just give up on this dream?
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Post by Tankdriver on May 15, 2023 11:08:18 GMT -5
Skilly you aren't far off. With Florida advancing, I'd be now willing to trade that pick and Harris for PLD on the condition of an extension being signed.
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Post by Polarice on May 15, 2023 11:37:48 GMT -5
He's a UFA next year right? No guarantee that he re-signs with us...look at Radulov.
If I'm trading for him I'd give Florida's first and maybe a later pick...perhaps a 3rd if we have it. If they want a young defenseman...I'd give them Harris and next years 1st. I'd keep Florida's pick....maybe move it for something else.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 15, 2023 12:20:25 GMT -5
Knowing Hughes, he'd want to do it at the draft
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Post by seventeen on May 15, 2023 13:24:07 GMT -5
He's a UFA next year right? No guarantee that he re-signs with us...look at Radulov. If I'm trading for him I'd give Florida's first and maybe a later pick...perhaps a 3rd if we have it. If they want a young defenseman...I'd give them Harris and next years 1st. I'd keep Florida's pick....maybe move it for something else. Harris gets no love. |
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Post by Tankdriver on May 15, 2023 14:24:47 GMT -5
He's a UFA next year right? No guarantee that he re-signs with us...look at Radulov. If I'm trading for him I'd give Florida's first and maybe a later pick...perhaps a 3rd if we have it. If they want a young defenseman...I'd give them Harris and next years 1st. I'd keep Florida's pick....maybe move it for something else. Harris gets no love. Not that he gets no love, I just like the X-men, Barron, Mailloux, Hutson better. The Jets won't be trading for Matheson, Edmondson, Savard, Kovacevic or Widemen and the Habs aren't trading Guhle. There is also Struble, Beaudoin, and others in the minors I am willing to give up. |
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Post by seventeen on May 15, 2023 15:38:12 GMT -5
There are questions marks around several of our Kid D's. Harris looks like a definite #5 who could fit into the 2nd pair with another years seasoning. While I love what Hutson has, we still don't know how that will translate to the NHL, if it does. Mailloux? I don't know if I'm the only one who is still not sold on him, but there's more to being an NHL defenseman than having an NHL shot, which Mailloux certainly does. Barron, I'd like to see be better defensively. Still somewhat raw, but Dmen take longer.
No way Guhle, Xhekaj, or Matheson is included. They can have Kovacevic back any day. I can see the Jets wanting Harris, but I like that he's proven, still young and is an amazing person. Harris' maturity is off the charts.
The Jets are somewhat deep at defense, or at least have more quality there than at forward. Their leadership situation is unsettled. Wheeler is aging, Scheiffele is 30 years old with character issues around him. Lowry is 30. If not a full rebuild, they're certainly looking at a heavy turnover. I think they'd prefer forward prospects, along with the Florida pick. Riley Kidney or (not that I want to add this guy), Owen Beck. But I'd want PLD and a second round pick if I have to add Beck.
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Post by Skilly on May 15, 2023 19:09:45 GMT -5
There are questions marks around several of our Kid D's. Harris looks like a definite #5 who could fit into the 2nd pair with another years seasoning. While I love what Hutson has, we still don't know how that will translate to the NHL, if it does. Mailloux? I don't know if I'm the only one who is still not sold on him, but there's more to being an NHL defenseman than having an NHL shot, which Mailloux certainly does. Barron, I'd like to see be better defensively. Still somewhat raw, but Dmen take longer. No way Guhle, Xhekaj, or Matheson is included. They can have Kovacevic back any day. I can see the Jets wanting Harris, but I like that he's proven, still young and is an amazing person. Harris' maturity is off the charts. The Jets are somewhat deep at defense, or at least have more quality there than at forward. Their leadership situation is unsettled. Wheeler is aging, Scheiffele is 30 years old with character issues around him. Lowry is 30. If not a full rebuild, they're certainly looking at a heavy turnover. I think they'd prefer forward prospects, along with the Florida pick. Riley Kidney or (not that I want to add this guy), Owen Beck. But I'd want PLD and a second round pick if I have to add Beck. According to Friedman, Jets definitely want a young puck moving defenseman and a first round pick. (I added Farrell / Mesar, since the pick is 29-31) My ranking of our young d-men is 1) Mailloux 2) Guhle 3) Xhekaj 4) Harris 5) Kovacevic 6) Barron So , I’d be ok with losing Harris. They all can’t play on the Habs at the same time |
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Post by Skilly on May 15, 2023 19:10:42 GMT -5
He's a UFA next year right? No guarantee that he re-signs with us...look at Radulov. If I'm trading for him I'd give Florida's first and maybe a later pick...perhaps a 3rd if we have it. If they want a young defenseman...I'd give them Harris and next years 1st. I'd keep Florida's pick....maybe move it for something else. The trade would all be contingent on PLD signing an extension. |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 15, 2023 20:11:51 GMT -5
There are questions marks around several of our Kid D's. Harris looks like a definite #5 who could fit into the 2nd pair with another years seasoning. While I love what Hutson has, we still don't know how that will translate to the NHL, if it does. Mailloux? I don't know if I'm the only one who is still not sold on him, but there's more to being an NHL defenseman than having an NHL shot, which Mailloux certainly does. Barron, I'd like to see be better defensively. Still somewhat raw, but Dmen take longer. No way Guhle, Xhekaj, or Matheson is included. They can have Kovacevic back any day. I can see the Jets wanting Harris, but I like that he's proven, still young and is an amazing person. Harris' maturity is off the charts. The Jets are somewhat deep at defense, or at least have more quality there than at forward. Their leadership situation is unsettled. Wheeler is aging, Scheiffele is 30 years old with character issues around him. Lowry is 30. If not a full rebuild, they're certainly looking at a heavy turnover. I think they'd prefer forward prospects, along with the Florida pick. Riley Kidney or (not that I want to add this guy), Owen Beck. But I'd want PLD and a second round pick if I have to add Beck. According to Friedman, Jets definitely want a young puck moving defenseman and a first round pick. (I added Farrell / Mesar, since the pick is 29-31) My ranking of our young d-men is 1) Mailloux 2) Guhle 3) Xhekaj 4) Harris 5) Kovacevic 6) Barron So , I’d be ok with losing Harris. They all can’t play on the Habs at the same time If we have to give up a D it has to be a lefty we are deep there 1) Mailloux - R 2) Guhle - L 3) Xhekaj - L 4) Harris - L 5) Kovacevic - R 6) Barron - R Hutson - L Struble - L Matheson - L Savard - R |
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Post by seventeen on May 15, 2023 20:54:36 GMT -5
One point needs to be made, because I'm the skeptical sort, and that is the relatively recent 'belief' that Logan Mailloux is our best defense prospect. Having seen Kaiden Guhle do what he has, at the NHL level, carrying David Savard and playing injured at times, Mr. Mailloux would have to be something special for me to consider him better than Guhle. So how did LM get this label? It started after a certain Hab development coach proclaimed him to be the best prospect. Now in his defense (we'll get to his name soon), he may not have considered Guhle or Harris or Xhekaj as 'prospects' because they were already in the NHL. Tha guru of the mountain is Francis Bouillon who owes his job to a certain Marc Bergevin, who drafted LM. They might be best friends for all I know. In any case, I don't consider it as independent a judgment as if Hughes or Gorton had come out and said that. Frankly, it's not a good idea for any member of the organization to rank their players and they tend not to.
Back to the question of Mailloux. I'm watching him vs Peterborough and he hasn't been noticeable, which is probably not a bad thing. But that doesn't scream "Top Pair DMan", either. A couple of silly plays, an icing and a pass that resulted in an offside rather than a zone entry. The occasional good pass, too. What does stand out is that he is a lot bigger than most of the guys in the OHL. That makes me ask how he would do against bigger forwards where he doesn't have a physical advantage. I don't know, but we'll find out next year. He's going to have to process the game faster without a size advantage.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 16, 2023 6:13:14 GMT -5
One point needs to be made, because I'm the skeptical sort, and that is the relatively recent 'belief' that Logan Mailloux is our best defense prospect. Having seen Kaiden Guhle do what he has, at the NHL level, carrying David Savard and playing injured at times, Mr. Mailloux would have to be something special for me to consider him better than Guhle. So how did LM get this label? It started after a certain Hab development coach proclaimed him to be the best prospect. Now in his defense (we'll get to his name soon), he may not have considered Guhle or Harris or Xhekaj as 'prospects' because they were already in the NHL. Tha guru of the mountain is Francis Bouillon who owes his job to a certain Marc Bergevin, who drafted LM. They might be best friends for all I know. In any case, I don't consider it as independent a judgment as if Hughes or Gorton had come out and said that. Frankly, it's not a good idea for any member of the organization to rank their players and they tend not to. Back to the question of Mailloux. I'm watching him vs Peterborough and he hasn't been noticeable, which is probably not a bad thing. But that doesn't scream "Top Pair DMan", either. A couple of silly plays, an icing and a pass that resulted in an offside rather than a zone entry. The occasional good pass, too. What does stand out is that he is a lot bigger than most of the guys in the OHL. That makes me ask how he would do against bigger forwards where he doesn't have a physical advantage. I don't know, but we'll find out next year. He's going to have to process the game faster without a size advantage. I like Mailloux and I think he is exactly what we need, big, strong, good skater, can carry the puck into the zone and a he isn't afraid to drop them. If Barron develops then Guhle-Barron Xhekaj- Mailloux Hutson- ?? They would all be interchangeable on their respective sides He will most likely be our best right handed D... we will see how he develops but I think he will become a top 4 at minimum, so |
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Post by Skilly on May 16, 2023 6:24:45 GMT -5
According to Friedman, Jets definitely want a young puck moving defenseman and a first round pick. (I added Farrell / Mesar, since the pick is 29-31) My ranking of our young d-men is 1) Mailloux 2) Guhle 3) Xhekaj 4) Harris 5) Kovacevic 6) Barron So , I’d be ok with losing Harris. They all can’t play on the Habs at the same time If we have to give up a D it has to be a lefty we are deep there 1) Mailloux - R 2) Guhle - L 3) Xhekaj - L 4) Harris - L 5) Kovacevic - R 6) Barron - R Hutson - L Struble - L Matheson - L Savard - R Doh! I forgot Hutson. I’d have him 4th on my list. Like seventeen with Mailloux, I have my doubts with him. Mailloux has the size to play in the NHL, but can he use it??? Hutson adds to our Smurf village. Funny no one doubts can he measure up to the NHL big boys. But I do |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 16, 2023 6:30:47 GMT -5
If we have to give up a D it has to be a lefty we are deep there 1) Mailloux - R 2) Guhle - L 3) Xhekaj - L 4) Harris - L 5) Kovacevic - R 6) Barron - R Hutson - L Struble - L Matheson - L Savard - R Doh! I forgot Hutson. I’d have him 4th on my list. Like seventeen with Mailloux, I have my doubts with him. Mailloux has the size to play in the NHL, but can he use it??? Hutson adds to our Smurf village. Funny no one doubts can he measure up to the NHL big boys. But I do I think Hutson has the smarts to survive and succeed but he will need a some sort of deterrent so the only deterrent he can be paired with, since he's a lefty, is Mailloux... Barron, Kova and Savard are not going to be any type of deterrent. |
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Post by Tankdriver on May 16, 2023 10:08:08 GMT -5
If you could get Chicago to retain 50%, I'd do our Florida pick and another pick for Seth Jones.
He doesn't fit in with their time line.
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Post by seventeen on May 16, 2023 12:27:07 GMT -5
Don't forget Adam Engstrom. He's an LHD, but a very good prospect and, IMO, higher than Struble. He's probably below Hutson as far as ceiling goes, but I bet he has a higher floor.
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Post by seventeen on May 16, 2023 12:31:52 GMT -5
If you could get Chicago to retain 50%, I'd do our Florida pick and another pick for Seth Jones. He doesn't fit in with their time line. He'll be 29 at the start of the next season and he is anything but an analytics darling. He may be living off his early career performance. The important fact is that he's older than Matheson so unless one looks at him as a stop gap measure, he doesn't fit our timeline either. In fact, he may be close to falling off that proverbial cliff. Just a dissenting veiwpoint  . |
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Post by Andrew on May 16, 2023 13:03:22 GMT -5
Relating to Hutson there's an interesting article in the Athletic today from Pronman reflecting on the 2018 entry draft. One observation is that teams were coveting smaller skilled defensemen that fit the "modern NHL" mold of a defender, however, they've mostly been outperformed by bigger mobile defenders.
Given the number of young defenders and prospects that Habs have, Hopefully Hughes and company have a good sense of which we can sell high on, as there are only so many roster spots. So far only Guhle has distinguished himself as a definite top 4 option.
If our offseason consisted of flipping the Florida pick and a young defender for Dubois and drafting Michkov I'd be optimistic. We'd immediately have good center depth and start building towards being a contender as the young core develops. Add in a 21 year old star forward in Michkov after 3 seasons, and the window is wide open.
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Post by Tankdriver on May 16, 2023 14:40:21 GMT -5
If you could get Chicago to retain 50%, I'd do our Florida pick and another pick for Seth Jones. He doesn't fit in with their time line. He'll be 29 at the start of the next season and he is anything but an analytics darling. He may be living off his early career performance. The important fact is that he's older than Matheson so unless one looks at him as a stop gap measure, he doesn't fit our timeline either. In fact, he may be close to falling off that proverbial cliff. Just a dissenting veiwpoint . Yeah but at 50% you are only paying 4.75 M. Maybe he is done....Just spit balling ideas. |
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Post by seventeen on May 16, 2023 23:02:59 GMT -5
He'll be 29 at the start of the next season and he is anything but an analytics darling. He may be living off his early career performance. The important fact is that he's older than Matheson so unless one looks at him as a stop gap measure, he doesn't fit our timeline either. In fact, he may be close to falling off that proverbial cliff. Just a dissenting veiwpoint . Yeah but at 50% you are only paying 4.75 M. Maybe he is done....Just spit balling ideas. That's about the only fun we have these days. Until the draft! |
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 8, 2023 14:04:05 GMT -5
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Post by drkcloud on Jun 8, 2023 23:27:03 GMT -5
Apparently according to Arpon Basu's latest article for the Athletic (I don't have a subscription, so can't provide a link or quote just going from replies to his tweet) Dubois had submitted a list of 5 or 6 teams he's willing to go to and is looking to get a 8 year contract worth around 9 million per.
It seems the Habs are not the only team he'll play for, and frankly he's out of his mind at 8x9.
Basu also clarifies that while Hughes capped Caufield at less than Suzuki, that was only for players coming off an entry level deal and he'd be willing to go to 9 for a UFA or 1 yr from UFA.
Anyways I don't like these games and am not interested in Dubois at that price point, particularly since it seems there will be multiple teams in the bidding
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Post by Willie Dog on Jun 9, 2023 10:30:12 GMT -5
Apparently according to Arpon Basu's latest article for the Athletic (I don't have a subscription, so can't provide a link or quote just going from replies to his tweet) Dubois had submitted a list of 5 or 6 teams he's willing to go to and is looking to get a 8 year contract worth around 9 million per. It seems the Habs are not the only team he'll play for, and frankly he's out of his mind at 8x9. Basu also clarifies that while Hughes capped Caufield at less than Suzuki, that was only for players coming off an entry level deal and he'd be willing to go to 9 for a UFA or 1 yr from UFA. Anyways I don't like these games and am not interested in Dubois at that price point, particularly since it seems there will be multiple teams in the bidding I agree... M. DuBois can frappe la rue at that price point... |
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Post by jkr on Jun 9, 2023 11:19:20 GMT -5
Apparently according to Arpon Basu's latest article for the Athletic (I don't have a subscription, so can't provide a link or quote just going from replies to his tweet) Dubois had submitted a list of 5 or 6 teams he's willing to go to and is looking to get a 8 year contract worth around 9 million per. It seems the Habs are not the only team he'll play for, and frankly he's out of his mind at 8x9. Basu also clarifies that while Hughes capped Caufield at less than Suzuki, that was only for players coming off an entry level deal and he'd be willing to go to 9 for a UFA or 1 yr from UFA. Anyways I don't like these games and am not interested in Dubois at that price point, particularly since it seems there will be multiple teams in the bidding I've been lukewarm to Dubois. I dont see him as a 9 million dollar player when I watch him, not even close. He bailed on Columbus, now he's bailing on Winnipeg. Let him go to someone else on his list. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 9, 2023 12:44:14 GMT -5
How often does the car dealer stick to the MSRP when you show interest in that car? Only if it's a car that everyone desires (New EV's today, the Mazda Miata when it first came out etc.). So the thinking has to be, "how popular is PLD?". My thinking is that there would definitely be some interest there from some teams, but I'm not sure they're willing to go high on price. Yes, PLD is entering his prime, but the best he's managed is 63 points albeit in 73 games. The history works against him too, so while there would be interest, it's not Miata interest. His size and skill would help us, as would his playoff intensity. Is there enough leadership on the team to restrain the negatives? The word "entitlement" keeps creeping into my mind when we discuss him.
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