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Post by seventeen on Mar 22, 2022 2:04:03 GMT -5
Columbus made out really poorly on their deal, unless of course Hreschuk is the next coming of a legit top four d-man. Hreschuk looks like a project. That deal was surely a salary dump too. Max isn't useless though. He’ll help Carolina who have been going through a scoring drought. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 22, 2022 7:07:18 GMT -5
I hope every tax advantaged state team collapses. Its hard for them to do that because of the huge CAP benefit they get every year. If I was the owner of a Cdn team I’d be organizing a cabal of high tax teams to change the CAP to after tax dollars. Those southern teams would squawk so loud. So would Bettman |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 22, 2022 7:37:54 GMT -5
I am impressed with Hughes and Gorton so far. In the last month and a week they have gotten: 2 first round picks (Florida, Calgary) 3 very good prospects (Barron, Smilanic, Heineman) 2 second round picks (Edmonton, Colorado) 2 4th round picks 1 5th round pick For Kulak, Lekhonen, Chariot and Toffoli. All of who I consider replacable on the free agent market or we could always re-sign in July. I am eagerly excited to see all the potential we will select that won’t play for Montreal #jaded We cannot have it both ways. Wallowing in mediocrity with a litany of bad contracts and a lineup architecture that was as haphazard as it gets was taking this team nowhere. The team did have the perfect storm last year and a share of the right combination of luck and sequence of events with a whole lot of players all overachieving at the same time made for one of the best Cinderella runs of the ages. But I don’t think anyone thought it was sustainable year over year. Most did not see this team getting into the playoffs this year due to the heavily stacked division and better teams ahead. And this was fresh off the Cup Final appearance with said euphoria still intact. So, HuGo have come in with a plan. Although Hughes does not like to call it a rebuild, his work over the past two weeks is all about rebuilding. Heck, bringing in new scouts, a new skills and development coach, a new head coach to change up the team dynamics is all rebuilding. But let’s focus on his deadline moves. He traded guys on expiring contracts (Chiarot, Kulak, Hammond) and a contract extension that he could not afford (Lehky) and made out like bandits in his return on all his moves. He traded a team friendly contract because a team met his asking price. He sets values and prices to players, and he sticks to his guns. He also does each move as part of transforming this team into a faster, more skilled team that will be competitive on a sustainable basis. Rome was not built in a day, but all moves so far align with his stated strategic direction and plan. About the haul of picks and young prospects, this is a great stepping stone on a rebuild. You get a return on assets, and you set up a bunch of chances to build a core well into the future. The easiest and cheapest and most sustainable way to build a strong core is through drafting and development. And while it is easy to be justifiably jaded with the performance of Berg and Timmins in both those areas, the slate is clean on how HuGo will do. But early reports and moves are positive. They want to beef up both areas. They want to develop actual personalized player development plans. They want to provide the skills and development tools to players to make it happen. This is a far cry from the old regime. It is how modern sports franchises work. Will all those draft picks that they actually use at the draft work out? Nope. But Hughes has already started to target young prospects with skating and skills, attributes that increase the chance of a player eventually playing in the league. Berg and Timmins would often forgo a more skilled player for a safe bet, two way guy, some gym rat, or run most of a draft based on positional need rather than picking BPA all the time. And Hughes came out and said that he has flexibility with the draft picks accumulated. He can use them to draft kids, to acquire players or prospects, or to move into a future draft. Credit where credit due. A trade deadline that was executed very well, and even more importantly, with a bigger plan and strategy in mind. There is a ton of work to be done and only in the long run will all these moves prove to be the right ones or not, but a transformation has to start somewhere. And it has. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 22, 2022 8:49:06 GMT -5
We cannot have it both ways. Wallowing in mediocrity with a litany of bad contracts and a lineup architecture that was as haphazard as it gets was taking this team nowhere. The team did have the perfect storm last year and a share of the right combination of luck and sequence of events with a whole lot of players all overachieving at the same time made for one of the best Cinderella runs of the ages. But I don’t think anyone thought it was sustainable year over year. Most did not see this team getting into the playoffs this year due to the heavily stacked division and better teams ahead. And this was fresh off the Cup Final appearance with said euphoria still intact. So, HuGo have come in with a plan. Although Hughes does not like to call it a rebuild, his work over the past two weeks is all about rebuilding. Heck, bringing in new scouts, a new skills and development coach, a new head coach to change up the team dynamics is all rebuilding. But let’s focus on his deadline moves. He traded guys on expiring contracts (Chiarot, Kulak, Hammond) and a contract extension that he could not afford (Lehky) and made out like bandits in his return on all his moves. He traded a team friendly contract because a team met his asking price. He sets values and prices to players, and he sticks to his guns. He also does each move as part of transforming this team into a faster, more skilled team that will be competitive on a sustainable basis. Rome was not built in a day, but all moves so far align with his stated strategic direction and plan. About the haul of picks and young prospects, this is a great stepping stone on a rebuild. You get a return on assets, and you set up a bunch of chances to build a core well into the future. The easiest and cheapest and most sustainable way to build a strong core is through drafting and development. And while it is easy to be justifiably jaded with the performance of Berg and Timmins in both those areas, the slate is clean on how HuGo will do. But early reports and moves are positive. They want to beef up both areas. They want to develop actual personalized player development plans. They want to provide the skills and development tools to players to make it happen. This is a far cry from the old regime. It is how modern sports franchises work. Will all those draft picks that they actually use at the draft work out? Nope. But Hughes has already started to target young prospects with skating and skills, attributes that increase the chance of a player eventually playing in the league. Berg and Timmins would often forgo a more skilled player for a safe bet, two way guy, some gym rat, or run most of a draft based on positional need rather than picking BPA all the time. And Hughes came out and said that he has flexibility with the draft picks accumulated. He can use them to draft kids, to acquire players or prospects, or to move into a future draft. Credit where credit due. A trade deadline that was executed very well, and even more importantly, with a bigger plan and strategy in mind. There is a ton of work to be done and only in the long run will all these moves prove to be the right ones or not, but a transformation has to start somewhere. And it has. This is a great post... it describes what we had, where we were and where we are going... I think HuGo did a great job the past week everyone moved returned greater than expected results... I watched a youtube post from hockey junkie and he showed a graphic on RDS that showed our D prospects and I was blown away Go to the 8:42 mark of the video youtu.be/OgcrhClwDfQBarron was the key acquisition, we are far stronger on left D than the right, so adding Barron was huge, I expect another right side D to be drafted because they seem harder to come by. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 22, 2022 9:42:16 GMT -5
Willie Dog you will like this one clip of Barron then.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 22, 2022 10:48:12 GMT -5
Willie Dog you will like this one clip of Barron then. Nice reverse cross overs |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 22, 2022 12:51:13 GMT -5
I hope every tax advantaged state team collapses. Its hard for them to do that because of the huge CAP benefit they get every year. If I was the owner of a Cdn team I’d be organizing a cabal of high tax teams to change the CAP to after tax dollars. Those southern teams would squawk so loud. So would Bettman Which goes to show it would be an excellent idea. |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 22, 2022 13:08:25 GMT -5
Willie Dog you will like this one clip of Barron then. Nice reverse cross overs yeah, good skating, but the first thing that struck me when the play by play guy called his name for having the puck was "That guy is huge". I had seen Barron play before in a U18 game (I think. Do they broadcast U17 games?). He was described by the announcers as a defensive player first and that if there were areas that needed improving, it was his offense. Hmmm. In that same game, I saw him join the rush several times and make some excellent passes. I didn't see any worrying shortcomings in his offense. Still... that was one game only. I had liked him ever since, but didn't really think Habs had a shot at prying him out of Sakic's cold, dying hands. This whole trade deadline was really strange. This is what parody, I mean parity has done. Picture Hughes as a retailer of air conditioning units and fans. He's just bought the business and the inventory is nothing special and the previous owner bought it at too high a cost. Hughes is going to have a tough time unloading it and might have to put it on sale. Suddenly there's a heat wave and a bunch of oil money Northerner's can't take it and come into Hughes' store and he's able to unload a bunch at terrific margins. That was this year's Trade Deadline. While I agree that Hughes did a good job, we were also lucky with the environment and having just the right pieces that were highly desirable. I'll take that any day. Interesting point. There was an article in The Athletic grading some of the trades and the writers gave Colorado an A and the Habs a B for the trade. I don't agree at all. I think both teams did the right thing and both deserved A's. I also think Sakic would rather not have given up Barron, but Lehkonen is too good a fit for his team for the playoffs. The third line on a team often is the difference maker. Those writers must not value Barron as well as others (like me). |
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 22, 2022 13:19:01 GMT -5
yeah, good skating, but the first thing that struck me when the play by play guy called his name for having the puck was "That guy is huge". I had seen Barron play before in a U18 game (I think. Do they broadcast U17 games?). He was described by the announcers as a defensive player first and that if there were areas that needed improving, it was his offense. Hmmm. In that same game, I saw him join the rush several times and make some excellent passes. I didn't see any worrying shortcomings in his offense. Still... that was one game only. I had liked him ever since, but didn't really think Habs had a shot at prying him out of Sakic's cold, dying hands. This whole trade deadline was really strange. This is what parody, I mean parity has done. Picture Hughes as a retailer of air conditioning units and fans. He's just bought the business and the inventory is nothing special and the previous owner bought it at too high a cost. Hughes is going to have a tough time unloading it and might have to put it on sale. Suddenly there's a heat wave and a bunch of oil money Northerner's can't take it and come into Hughes' store and he's able to unload a bunch at terrific margins. That was this year's Trade Deadline. While I agree that Hughes did a good job, we were also lucky with the environment and having just the right pieces that were highly desirable. I'll take that any day. Interesting point. There was an article in The Athletic grading some of the trades and the writers gave Colorado an A and the Habs a B for the trade. I don't agree at all. I think both teams did the right thing and both deserved A's. I also think Sakic would rather not have given up Barron, but Lehkonen is too good a fit for his team for the playoffs. The third line on a team often is the difference maker. Those writers must not value Barron as well as others (like me). The Avs get an A now, we get an A in 5 years years when Barron is part of an awesome top 4 D corps |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 22, 2022 13:40:20 GMT -5
About the haul of picks and young prospects, this is a great stepping stone on a rebuild. You get a return on assets, and you set up a bunch of chances to build a core well into the future. The easiest and cheapest and most sustainable way to build a strong core is through drafting and development. And while it is easy to be justifiably jaded with the performance of Berg and Timmins in both those areas, the slate is clean on how HuGo will do. But early reports and moves are positive. They want to beef up both areas. They want to develop actual personalized player development plans. They want to provide the skills and development tools to players to make it happen. This is a far cry from the old regime. It is how modern sports franchises work. Will all those draft picks that they actually use at the draft work out? Nope. But Hughes has already started to target young prospects with skating and skills, attributes that increase the chance of a player eventually playing in the league. Berg and Timmins would often forgo a more skilled player for a safe bet, two way guy, some gym rat, or run most of a draft based on positional need rather than picking BPA all the time. And Hughes came out and said that he has flexibility with the draft picks accumulated. He can use them to draft kids, to acquire players or prospects, or to move into a future draft. Good post, NWT. One thing I'm going to add, because I'm such a contrarian. I think Timmins is getting short shrift here. I understand why he was fired as he was tied too closely to the failed Bergevin group. But his track record, especially lately, isn't that bad. 2012- Chucky. He was my pick too. As we have seen, the issues were development and the NHL getting faster. 2013 - Berg demands size because they were picked on by the Sens. McCarron, Delarose first picks, though 2013 was a draft that fell off after the middle of the first round. The one 'small' guy they picked in the 2nd round (Lekhonen) turned out pretty well. 2014 - The first of 3 consecutive years with no 2nd round pick. They got Jake Evans at #207. 2015 - Juulsen - done in by injuries in a deep draft. Not a good year for the Habs 2016 - Sergachev, Mete and Pezzetta. Pretty good. 2017 - Poehling, and the pickings were slim after #50. Our next pick after Poehling was #56. Look at the draft list. It's a desert after #50. 2018 - KK (talk about discord on this one), Ylonen, Romanov and Jordan Harris. A very good draft. 2019 - Caufield, Struble, Norlinder. Struble and Norlinder yet to grade out. Lurking in the weeds are Fairbrother and Dichow (keep that name in mind). Caufield alone makes this draft a winner. 2020 - Guhle, Tuch, Mysak and Farrell. These are still names who have to prove themselves, but at least they have progressed properly and have some potential. Guhle and Farrell especially. Farrell was pick #124. Also lurking in the weeds... Jakub Dobes. 2021 - Mailloux (  ?), Riley Kidney, Joshua Roy. Still way too early, but Kidney is looking really good for a pick at #63 and Roy was chosen at #150. Now, Shane Churla was around for many of the more recent picks (2013-2020). He was a scout to start with and ended up Director of Scouting before Florida stole him or we lost him. Not sure which. He probably didn't see a lot of upside in Montreal. Just providing balance. The good results may not have been Timmins having an epiphany. My point is that the scouting seemed to be in good hands when Berg was fired. Right now with Martin Lapointe in charge, it's uncertain. Might be fine. Might not. Hughes says he has confidence in Lapointe, but any boss would say that, until he finds the person he's been waiting for to hire. We won't be able to judge Lapointe for a couple of years after this draft. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 22, 2022 14:18:48 GMT -5
Barron onwards to Montreal. He will practice with the big club and get a wee looksie before they decide when to send him down. He is only 20. First year pro due to his November birthday (otherwise he would be playing in juniors like Guhle).
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Mar 22, 2022 14:22:41 GMT -5
seventeen I am fully in agreement that Timmins and crew have made some much better picks over the last number of years. I still think some of his blind spots existed with some picks, and no doubt that Berg provided certain direction on draft strategies that may have precluded going BPA or more skilled guys. The good news is that with a much stronger commitment to player development, the chances of some of those decent past picks developing into players increases in my books. HuGo are not starting from scratch. There are players and prospects from the previous regime that will be part of the solution going forward. I also expect that we will have to wait until the summer to see who will be in charge of future drafts. I expect a new Head at some point once their work with an existing team is done for the season.
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Post by seventeen on Mar 22, 2022 22:10:55 GMT -5
seventeen I am fully in agreement that Timmins and crew have made some much better picks over the last number of years. I still think some of his blind spots existed with some picks, and no doubt that Berg provided certain direction on draft strategies that may have precluded going BPA or more skilled guys. The good news is that with a much stronger commitment to player development, the chances of some of those decent past picks developing into players increases in my books. HuGo are not starting from scratch. There are players and prospects from the previous regime that will be part of the solution going forward. I also expect that we will have to wait until the summer to see who will be in charge of future drafts. I expect a new Head at some point once their work with an existing team is done for the season. I didn't want to discuss potential replacements because a) I'm not knowledgable on that anyway. Too many good guys not known except in their own circles. Other than you of course  b) I didn't expect any new blood until after July 1 when there is time to approach people and it is appropriate. (i.e. No tampering) |
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Post by folatre on Mar 22, 2022 22:31:05 GMT -5
I was listening to Dreger today and he said something about on Monday he was hearing something between Ottawa and Montreal may have been going down. Then I believe he said he did not know specifics/names, but speculated that maybe Colin White was in the conversations.
Hockey is debatable. But, man, I sure hope that Montreal does not acquire White. For me he is not impressive and has a lame contract to bout.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 23, 2022 7:10:57 GMT -5
I was listening to Dreger today and he said something about on Monday he was hearing something between Ottawa and Montreal may have been going down. Then I believe he said he did not know specifics/names, but speculated that maybe Colin White was in the conversations. Hockey is debatable. But, man, I sure hope that Montreal does not acquire White. For me he is not impressive and has a lame contract to bout. I agree, why are we doing Melnyk a favour... |
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Post by seventeen on Mar 23, 2022 14:12:02 GMT -5
I was listening to Dreger today and he said something about on Monday he was hearing something between Ottawa and Montreal may have been going down. Then I believe he said he did not know specifics/names, but speculated that maybe Colin White was in the conversations. Hockey is debatable. But, man, I sure hope that Montreal does not acquire White. For me he is not impressive and has a lame contract to bout. I agree, why are we doing Melnyk a favour... It might well have been a bad contract for a bad contract. We have a few of those. Weber's may have been in play. |
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Post by folatre on Mar 23, 2022 16:38:32 GMT -5
For all Ottawa's misery with their sixth consecutive seasons at the bottom of the league standings, they are not really going to be struggling to get to the cap floor next season with the kind of money guys like Tkachuk, Chabot, Murray, Batherson, and Norris (he will not sign long-term for less than Suzuki money). Arizona was the obvious dog sniffing around. I am not sure about what Buffalo's numbers are looking like.
Basically, Weber is going to stay on LTIR until his contract expires and Montreal can be 10 percent over the cap in the summer, so I really do not see Weber's contract as a big issue.
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Post by Willie Dog on Mar 23, 2022 18:19:39 GMT -5
For all Ottawa's misery with their sixth consecutive seasons at the bottom of the league standings, they are not really going to be struggling to get to the cap floor next season with the kind of money guys like Tkachuk, Chabot, Murray, Batherson, and Norris (he will not sign long-term for less than Suzuki money). Arizona was the obvious dog sniffing around. I am not sure about what Buffalo's numbers are looking like. Basically, Weber is going to stay on LTIR until his contract expires and Montreal can be 10 percent over the cap in the summer, so I really do not see Weber's contract as a big issue. I'm hoping the Sens become the Leafs in that they are top heavy in cap allocation given Melnyks cheapness... |
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Post by folatre on Mar 23, 2022 19:41:19 GMT -5
I think the Sens will be top heavy (three guys with $8M+ AAV), but unlike the Leafs I do not believe spending to the ceiling is going to happen. Melnyk is sore about the major losses he has incurred in three seasons impacted by Covid, as well no one gifting him a downtown arena. I can see maybe they spend to the mid-point between the cap floor and ceiling, but Melnyk will continue to be super cheap in all the hockey ops areas (coaching, management, scouting, etc.).
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Post by seventeen on Mar 28, 2022 22:03:32 GMT -5
I think the Sens will be top heavy (three guys with $8M+ AAV), but unlike the Leafs I do not believe spending to the ceiling is going to happen. Melnyk is sore about the major losses he has incurred in three seasons impacted by Covid, as well no one gifting him a downtown arena. I can see maybe they spend to the mid-point between the cap floor and ceiling, but Melnyk will continue to be super cheap in all the hockey ops areas (coaching, management, scouting, etc.). Someone else is going to have to carry on that tradition. |
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?), Riley Kidney, Joshua Roy. Still way too early, but Kidney is looking really good for a pick at #63 and Roy was chosen at #150. 
