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Post by blny on Feb 23, 2019 22:30:14 GMT -5
KK was on against the Flyers. He's the fifth 18 year old to score 30 points in the NHL before turning 19. I think the stage of the big game might be a bit much at this point, but he wasn't why they lost. I wasn't blaming kk... I just said he looks done I know you aren't blaming him. I just disagree.  |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2019 7:22:34 GMT -5
I hear ya, but I still think if Montreal's offer is better (on any trade) Ottawa will do what it takes to make their team better There is no way, given how bad things are in Ottawa that they trade stone or dzingle to montreal... unless they rob MB blind and can justify it I disagree. They'll do what's best for them. There is no way they take less to avoid trading with Montreal. They've traded in the past with Toronto for heaven's sake |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2019 7:33:34 GMT -5
Both picks can become firsts. If Dallas plays 2 rounds, that 2nd becomes a first. If the Stars sign Zuc, the third becomes a first. It's 2013 all over again. There are players going for drafts picks and middling prospects. Of course the argument will be how do I know Bergevin wasn't trying, but he sure ain't landing help. This post isn't about Zuccarello, it's about the cost of landing someone for a playoff run, to at least try to improve your team ... I'll track our second round picks again that seem to be the lifeline we need. |
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Post by folatre on Feb 24, 2019 11:02:30 GMT -5
I recall being surprised by the Habs in that short season, 2012-13. However, the boys had arguably proved more that season than this year's edition of the Habs. The 2013 Habs were second in the conference in points and goal differential. This 2019 group is seventh (points) and ninth (goal differential), respectively. And I really think, this time around, that it is not that Bergevin is squandering a chance to help a Montreal team positioned near the top of the mountain get up to the top. This team is not positioned anywhere near the top.
I understand that the Stars got Zuccarello but I really think Jim Nill is worried, and legitimately so, that he is going to be fired in April if Dallas misses the playoffs. No one thinks the Stars are good enough to beat San Jose, Winnipeg, or Nashville in the first round and for me acquiring Lovejoy and Zuccarello does not change that. What Lovejoy and Zuccarello help accomplish is holding off the rest of the dregs of the Western Conference to grab one of those wild cards.
Going back to the Habs, for me the main argument that could be made for adding to this team is to help hold off Carolina for the last playoff spot. I can see it, but I happen to think a healthy Montreal already has the tools to beat out a healthy Carolina. And in my opinion that is all the Habs are really fighting for.
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Post by blny on Feb 24, 2019 11:05:09 GMT -5
Both picks can become firsts. If Dallas plays 2 rounds, that 2nd becomes a first. If the Stars sign Zuc, the third becomes a first. It's 2013 all over again. There are players going for drafts picks and middling prospects. Of course the argument will be how do I know Bergevin wasn't trying, but he sure ain't landing help. This post isn't about Zuccarello, it's about the cost of landing someone for a playoff run, to at least try to improve your team ... I'll track our second round picks again that seem to be the lifeline we need. Read the conditions. The second becomes a first if they play in the second round. The third becomes a first if they sign him. He's not a goal scorer. He's a set up man. |
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 24, 2019 11:19:04 GMT -5
There is no way, given how bad things are in Ottawa that they trade stone or dzingle to montreal... unless they rob MB blind and can justify it I disagree. They'll do what's best for them. There is no way they take less to avoid trading with Montreal. They've traded in the past with Toronto for heaven's sake Iirc... They did when they traded Hoffman and they didnt want to trade with the Panthers... the Panthers offered them more than the sharks... I can guarantee you they dont want to trade with the habs |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2019 13:14:28 GMT -5
There is no way, given how bad things are in Ottawa that they trade stone or dzingle to montreal... unless they rob MB blind and can justify it ... and then people would complain about the over payment. I don't think 2 'B' prospects (think Hillis and Walford) and two first rounders for an extended Duchene is an overpayment. But I wouldn't have done it eitehr. I don't believe Duchene alone gets the team close enough to the cup. We have two solid defencemen (Weber and Petry and the jury is out on Weber lately). That's just not enough, even with Price at his best. We'd be strong up the middle but lack the scoring off the wing and are quite weak at the back end. Unfortunately it's just not the right timing for the Habs. If Poehling, Brook, Tyszka, Suzuki and Romanov were 3 years older, trading for a 27 year old Duchene would make a ton of sense. Columbus made a good deal. They've got the back end, they now have real strength up the middle with Duchene and Dubois and they're going to suffer greatly this summer if Bobs and Panarin leave, so it makes sense for them to go all in on a possible rental or at least set the table for a rebuild if Duchene leaves. It costs them a first rounder (middle of the pack) and not much else. If they keep Duchene, it costs them another 1st rounder, which will be middle of the pack at worst anyway. At least they're not playing the Hamster wheel. |
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Post by blny on Feb 24, 2019 13:20:08 GMT -5
... and then people would complain about the over payment. I don't think 2 'B' prospects (think Hillis and Walford) and two first rounders for an extended Duchene is an overpayment. But I wouldn't have done it eitehr. I don't believe Duchene alone gets the team close enough to the cup. We have two solid defencemen (Weber and Petry and the jury is out on Weber lately). That's just not enough, even with Price at his best. We'd be strong up the middle but lack the scoring off the wing and are quite weak at the back end. Unfortunately it's just not the right timing for the Habs. If Poehling, Brook, Tyszka, Suzuki and Romanov were 3 years older, trading for a 27 year old Duchene would make a ton of sense. Columbus made a good deal. They've got the back end, they now have real strength up the middle with Duchene and Dubois and they're going to suffer greatly this summer if Bobs and Panarin leave, so it makes sense for them to go all in on a possible rental or at least set the table for a rebuild if Duchene leaves. It costs them a first rounder (middle of the pack) and not much else. If they keep Duchene, it costs them another 1st rounder, which will be middle of the pack at worst anyway. At least they're not playing the Hamster wheel. But as WD and I agree, we never get Duchene from Ottawa - never mind for the equivalent price CBJ paid. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 24, 2019 14:18:59 GMT -5
I don't think 2 'B' prospects (think Hillis and Walford) and two first rounders for an extended Duchene is an overpayment. But I wouldn't have done it eitehr. I don't believe Duchene alone gets the team close enough to the cup. We have two solid defencemen (Weber and Petry and the jury is out on Weber lately). That's just not enough, even with Price at his best. We'd be strong up the middle but lack the scoring off the wing and are quite weak at the back end. Unfortunately it's just not the right timing for the Habs. If Poehling, Brook, Tyszka, Suzuki and Romanov were 3 years older, trading for a 27 year old Duchene would make a ton of sense. Columbus made a good deal. They've got the back end, they now have real strength up the middle with Duchene and Dubois and they're going to suffer greatly this summer if Bobs and Panarin leave, so it makes sense for them to go all in on a possible rental or at least set the table for a rebuild if Duchene leaves. It costs them a first rounder (middle of the pack) and not much else. If they keep Duchene, it costs them another 1st rounder, which will be middle of the pack at worst anyway. At least they're not playing the Hamster wheel. But as WD and I agree, we never get Duchene from Ottawa - never mind for the equivalent price CBJ paid. Not until we hire Doug Wilson |
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Post by blny on Feb 24, 2019 14:19:49 GMT -5
But as WD and I agree, we never get Duchene from Ottawa - never mind for the equivalent price CBJ paid. Not until we hire Doug Wilson LOL. The trick would be to have him stay out west and keep his number handy  . |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 24, 2019 15:53:36 GMT -5
I recall being surprised by the Habs in that short season, 2012-13. However, the boys had arguably proved more that season than this year's edition of the Habs. The 2013 Habs were second in the conference in points and goal differential. This 2019 group is seventh (points) and ninth (goal differential), respectively. And I really think, this time around, that it is not that Bergevin is squandering a chance to help a Montreal team positioned near the top of the mountain get up to the top. This team is not positioned anywhere near the top. I understand that the Stars got Zuccarello but I really think Jim Nill is worried, and legitimately so, that he is going to be fired in April if Dallas misses the playoffs. No one thinks the Stars are good enough to beat San Jose, Winnipeg, or Nashville in the first round and for me acquiring Lovejoy and Zuccarello does not change that. What Lovejoy and Zuccarello help accomplish is holding off the rest of the dregs of the Western Conference to grab one of those wild cards. Going back to the Habs, for me the main argument that could be made for adding to this team is to help hold off Carolina for the last playoff spot. I can see it, but I happen to think a healthy Montreal already has the tools to beat out a healthy Carolina. And in my opinion that is all the Habs are really fighting for. And that first place team only picked up Davis Drewiskie. The logic from Habs and fans alike was, the team got us to first place so they don’t need reinforcements. (Notwithstanding down the stretch that year goals were lacking). Which has always been the Habs logic and it infuriates me. So if we don’t make a move when we are high in the standings and we don’t make a move when we are battling for a playoff seeding (know the first round opponent could be tough) ...when do you make a move? In Habland, the answer is never. Because we might overpay, or we might lose a second rounder, or it won’t get us a Cup so why bother ...oh woe is me |
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Post by blny on Feb 24, 2019 16:03:14 GMT -5
I recall being surprised by the Habs in that short season, 2012-13. However, the boys had arguably proved more that season than this year's edition of the Habs. The 2013 Habs were second in the conference in points and goal differential. This 2019 group is seventh (points) and ninth (goal differential), respectively. And I really think, this time around, that it is not that Bergevin is squandering a chance to help a Montreal team positioned near the top of the mountain get up to the top. This team is not positioned anywhere near the top. I understand that the Stars got Zuccarello but I really think Jim Nill is worried, and legitimately so, that he is going to be fired in April if Dallas misses the playoffs. No one thinks the Stars are good enough to beat San Jose, Winnipeg, or Nashville in the first round and for me acquiring Lovejoy and Zuccarello does not change that. What Lovejoy and Zuccarello help accomplish is holding off the rest of the dregs of the Western Conference to grab one of those wild cards. Going back to the Habs, for me the main argument that could be made for adding to this team is to help hold off Carolina for the last playoff spot. I can see it, but I happen to think a healthy Montreal already has the tools to beat out a healthy Carolina. And in my opinion that is all the Habs are really fighting for. And that first place team only picked up Davis Drewiskie. The logic from Habs and fans alike was, the team got us to first place so they don’t need reinforcements. (Notwithstanding down the stretch that year goals were lacking). Which has always been the Habs logic and it infuriates me. So if we don’t make a move when we are high in the standings and we don’t make a move when we are battling for a playoff seeding (know the first round opponent could be tough) ...when do you make a move? In Habland, the answer is never. Because we might overpay, or we might lose a second rounder, or it won’t get us a Cup so why bother ...oh woe is me You make the move when you can afford to raid the prospect pool. You make the move when you're close. Our pool is just getting to the point where it can be considered stocked. I'd like another year the quality of the last two. We're closer to contention than we were, but we're not there yet either. I'm willing to make a move for a guy with term. If one of Duchene, or Stone, or Panarin, had term I'd be interested - in the context of this year. I'd be interested as UFAs. Next year, I see us in a better place to make a move for a pure rental. |
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Post by blny on Feb 24, 2019 19:07:07 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on Feb 24, 2019 21:55:23 GMT -5
Well, this is a hockey deal between two teams way more out of the playoff race than in the playoff race. When I saw blny's post, I thought why didn't Anaheim just wait until June to do something like this.
I like Montour. He is still young for the position he plays, he is club controlled for at least two seasons. Guhle is a pretty good though far from great prospect and a late first round pick is not a bad piece, but you kind of have to wonder if there was some kind of issue with Montour and management or Montour and the leadership circle in the room because it just seems like kind of a blah return for him.
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Post by blny on Feb 25, 2019 0:01:08 GMT -5
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Post by Skilly on Feb 25, 2019 9:17:35 GMT -5
And that first place team only picked up Davis Drewiskie. The logic from Habs and fans alike was, the team got us to first place so they don’t need reinforcements. (Notwithstanding down the stretch that year goals were lacking). Which has always been the Habs logic and it infuriates me. So if we don’t make a move when we are high in the standings and we don’t make a move when we are battling for a playoff seeding (know the first round opponent could be tough) ...when do you make a move? In Habland, the answer is never. Because we might overpay, or we might lose a second rounder, or it won’t get us a Cup so why bother ...oh woe is me You make the move when you can afford to raid the prospect pool. You make the move when you're close. Our pool is just getting to the point where it can be considered stocked. I'd like another year the quality of the last two. We're closer to contention than we were, but we're not there yet either. I'm willing to make a move for a guy with term. If one of Duchene, or Stone, or Panarin, had term I'd be interested - in the context of this year. I'd be interested as UFAs. Next year, I see us in a better place to make a move for a pure rental. And if the draft class is weak? We are yet another year waiting? I understand everyone's logic, I just don't agree with sending our team to the wolves and standing pat when we are this competitive. Next year holds no guarantees. We can easily make the conference finals this year. The teams are that close from 2-8. So why not get a second tier player to help the team? Not even trying just doesn't seem right. I totally agree with people that we don't sacrifice known commodities on the team. But second rounders and conditional picks (even this year's first rounder, I'd consider) when we have 10-11 picks ...yep. You will see that some players will only be traded for draft picks ... not the player, pick, prospect everyone fears. Those will be missed opportunities to me |
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 25, 2019 10:10:19 GMT -5
The only problem I see is that we don't need anymore second or third line players. We need top line players and they are not going cheap.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 25, 2019 10:51:23 GMT -5
Kronwall might be available, would he help out our D?
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Post by Skilly on Feb 25, 2019 11:02:39 GMT -5
The only problem I see is that we don't need anymore second or third line players. We need top line players and they are not going cheap. I think we can live with the first line. It's the second line and third line that needs to score more ... a little shuffling there improves both lines. Perhaps Kotkaniemi won't have Joel "Standhands" Armia on his line anymore then ... get Shaw off the second line ... etc |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Feb 25, 2019 11:08:19 GMT -5
Wow, first game with the Stars and a broken arm.
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Post by blny on Feb 25, 2019 11:23:49 GMT -5
You make the move when you can afford to raid the prospect pool. You make the move when you're close. Our pool is just getting to the point where it can be considered stocked. I'd like another year the quality of the last two. We're closer to contention than we were, but we're not there yet either. I'm willing to make a move for a guy with term. If one of Duchene, or Stone, or Panarin, had term I'd be interested - in the context of this year. I'd be interested as UFAs. Next year, I see us in a better place to make a move for a pure rental. And if the draft class is weak? We are yet another year waiting? I understand everyone's logic, I just don't agree with sending our team to the wolves and standing pat when we are this competitive. Next year holds no guarantees. We can easily make the conference finals this year. The teams are that close from 2-8. So why not get a second tier player to help the team? Not even trying just doesn't seem right. I totally agree with people that we don't sacrifice known commodities on the team. But second rounders and conditional picks (even this year's first rounder, I'd consider) when we have 10-11 picks ...yep. You will see that some players will only be traded for draft picks ... not the player, pick, prospect everyone fears. Those will be missed opportunities to me No guarantees in anything. I just think another year of adding to the pool is crucial before selling off pieces for pure rentals. |
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Post by blny on Feb 25, 2019 11:25:17 GMT -5
The only problem I see is that we don't need anymore second or third line players. We need top line players and they are not going cheap. Ottawa better get a move done on Stone or they might be left holding their you-know-whats in their hands. |
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Post by blny on Feb 25, 2019 11:28:11 GMT -5
Rangers trade K. Hayes to Jets for 2019 first, Brendan Lemieux and a conditional pick that becomes a 4th in 2022 if the Jets win cup.
Jets officially out on Stone according to Lebrun.
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Post by blny on Feb 25, 2019 11:29:07 GMT -5
Devils trade Kincaid to Jackets for a 5th in '22.
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Post by blny on Feb 25, 2019 11:30:39 GMT -5
Final word on Nyquist is a conditional 2nd in 2019 and a conditional 3rd in 2020. The 2020 pick becomes a second if the Sharks make the finals.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 25, 2019 11:30:45 GMT -5
The only problem I see is that we don't need anymore second or third line players. We need top line players and they are not going cheap. Ottawa better get a move done on Stone or they might be left holding their you-know-whats in their hands. It's what MB is praying for |
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Post by folatre on Feb 25, 2019 11:57:58 GMT -5
Hayes is finally playing like a 2C after looking far more like a third liner for most of his NHL career.
I guess it is a nice pickup for Winnipeg. The cost is okay but the Jets did not get a bargain (Lemieux has better hands and a better nose for goal than Armia, for example).
Everyone thinks Cheveldayoff is done now. I wonder. He might place one last call to Kekalainen and say Panarin for Roslovic. The Blue Jackets would love to get Roslovic, a hometown kid, future 2C, cost controlled. Duchene is going to test the market because Columbus is philosophically and for practical purposes a $0 signing bonus club. Kekalainen has a big deal with Werenski staring him in the face this summer and one with Dubois the following summer.
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Post by jkr on Feb 25, 2019 12:21:04 GMT -5
Devils trade Kincaid to Jackets for a 5th in '22. Getting traded for a 5th three years from now. That stings. Could be at least 5 years from now for that pick to turn into a pro. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 25, 2019 12:40:24 GMT -5
If I am MB, I am placing a call with Florida. Like I'll take Huberdeau and Reimer off your hands and you can have my Conditional first (if we make playoffs), a second round pick, a B level prospect and Lekhonen. I am taking back some contracts so they free up money and space for Columbus players this summer.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 25, 2019 12:50:57 GMT -5
If I am MB, I am placing a call with Florida. Like I'll take Huberdeau and Reimer off your hands and you can have my Conditional first (if we make playoffs), a second round pick, a B level prospect and Lekhonen. I am taking back some contracts so they free up money and space for Columbus players this summer. I'm not sure I understand the logic in trading Huberdeau for Florida. If having a star forward locked up to a long term $5.9 M deal is too much of a financial burden then you should just close up shop and move your team. It's not a viable business. |
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