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Post by PTH on May 1, 2022 14:47:57 GMT -5
I think letting Petry go would be as bad a move as letting Danault go was. Nah.... Petry is closer to Markov than to Danault - Danault was in his prime, and usage was an issue. Petry is more like a Markov - a piece we still need, but who might not have that many great years left. Ideally we'd keep Petry one more year so someone like Barron might be ready to play the PP, but really, I'd rather move Petry (and be sure not to be stuck with his contract if he doesn't get out of his next funk, and stays there for 2 years) and sign a Wideman-type to keep the PP tolerable until a better option comes along. Of course, it all depends on the deals on the table, but if we can move Petry without taking back a bad contract or retaining, I'm good with it. I'm hoping we can get some assets in return, or maybe move him along with a pick for a younger player who can fill somewhat the same role. But the key thing is gaining cap room for the medium term when Caufield and others need new deals. Back Markov - we all wanted him to stay, but I'm not sure we'd have been happier with a 3 year deal when he was already painfully slow at times. Petry's decline might take another form, but we don't need to risk it. |
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Post by folatre on May 1, 2022 15:19:02 GMT -5
There are two core questions at the heart of this. First, and most importantly, does Petry want to play in Montreal? And second, does management actually believe they can ice a team that can compete for the playoffs?
If Petry wants out, then I think it is case closed and management will successfully accommodate this request. I know that in the ‘day after’ interviews Petry sounded like a guy who was happy to end the season on a positive note and was taking the high road. However, I still think he wants to play in the States, for various reasons, to conclude his career.
Even if Petry is receptive to staying, management may not feel it is indispensable to keep him if they see a team incapable of coming close to chalking up 100 points in a tough division/conference.
I do not believe management will give Petry away, so a trade is not going to be a fire sale. My interpretation of what Hughes said is simply that hey we are going to get fair value for Petry and we will find a minute-eater on the right side in order to steady things. I do not take it to mean the asset coming back for Petry is going to be the experienced RHD minute-eater. Instead, I think it is likelier that Petry with no retention yields a second rounder and 50/50 hit/miss prospect, and then management goes out and signs a guy like Lyubushkin who will probably come in around the 2.5 million AAV range.
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Post by Skilly on May 1, 2022 18:21:05 GMT -5
I think letting Petry go would be as bad a move as letting Danault go was. Especially if the rumours are true that WE will have to sweeten the deal to get somebody to take him because of his salary. Like it or not, we need Petry to be our #1 defenseman, and right now there is nobody who is remotely close to being able to fill that position. We ain't getting one back in any hypothetical Petry trade and I'm highly skeptical of us being able to sign one as a free agent (and there are only two who would really qualify anyways, Letang and Klingberg). I'm not even considering trading him unless the deal is outrageously in our favor. Agree. My only concern is Petry will mope about all next year and eventually force a trade. I don't want Klingberg as he seems like a problem, and while he has some offensive skill he makes a lot of bonehead plays - a lot like Petry. My wish is Pens get blown out by Rags in the first series and Pens start the rebuild which will not include Letang and Kris comes home. He's got a few good years left in him. The guy can QB a PP, something we've needed for a while. I hope we don’t spend 7M+ on a 35 yr old defenseman. Yikes! |
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Post by PTH on May 1, 2022 18:35:01 GMT -5
Agree. My only concern is Petry will mope about all next year and eventually force a trade. I don't want Klingberg as he seems like a problem, and while he has some offensive skill he makes a lot of bonehead plays - a lot like Petry. My wish is Pens get blown out by Rags in the first series and Pens start the rebuild which will not include Letang and Kris comes home. He's got a few good years left in him. The guy can QB a PP, something we've needed for a while. I hope we don’t spend 7M+ on a 35 yr old defenseman. Yikes! Well, for a 1-year deal, I'm game. But as a GM I'd always avoid multi-year over 35 deals. |
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Post by Skilly on May 1, 2022 18:40:22 GMT -5
I thought the goal was to tank this year AND next year.
Danault hindered development of two top three picks. Sure he did well in LA, but that doesn’t mean he would have done that in Montreal. No Danault has gotten us top odds on Wright. Danault was going to have to accept a third line role eventually.
Danault is a good player. But letting him go wasn’t a mistake, he isn’t a make it or break it player. And we won’t be in the playoffs (where Danault is dominate) for 2-3 years
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Post by Cranky on May 1, 2022 21:05:32 GMT -5
I think letting Petry go would be as bad a move as letting Danault go was. Especially if the rumours are true that WE will have to sweeten the deal to get somebody to take him because of his salary. Like it or not, we need Petry to be our #1 defenseman, and right now there is nobody who is remotely close to being able to fill that position. We ain't getting one back in any hypothetical Petry trade and I'm highly skeptical of us being able to sign one as a free agent (and there are only two who would really qualify anyways, Letang and Klingberg). I'm not even considering trading him unless the deal is outrageously in our favor. I'm going back to engineering to study "do more with nothing". I'm afraid I may not find those courses. We have two top 4 of which one is still young and establishing himself. The rest are a slew of players who scratch on getting into top 6. Get rid of Petry and we have the worse defense in the NHL. The upside is that if this continues, we will test the super duper "build better through destruction" theory. Buffalo says hello. |
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Post by habsorbed on May 1, 2022 21:38:48 GMT -5
I thought the goal was to tank this year AND next year. Danault hindered development of two top three picks. Sure he did well in LA, but that doesn’t mean he would have done that in Montreal. No Danault has gotten us top odds on Wright. Danault was going to have to accept a third line role eventually. Danault is a good player. But letting him go wasn’t a mistake, he isn’t a make it or break it player. And we won’t be in the playoffs (where Danault is dominate) for 2-3 years Agree. Very interesting to see how Danny does against the Oil top centres. If Kings win it will be because of Danny's defensive shut down skills - and perhaps stellar goaltending. Sounds familiar. |
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Post by folatre on May 1, 2022 21:53:21 GMT -5
I hear you, Cranky. The Habs blueliners are bad but Petry, while good, is not good enough to alter anything in the standings (last is last) or on the power play (nearly last for the entirety of his tenure in Montreal). So if the guy really prefers to leave town, the downside of trading him is mitigated by the fact that Montreal has a down and out roster.
Habsorbed, I think game 1 is crucial for the Kings. I can see Kopitar and Danault playing admirably, but when I look at the six d-men for Los Angeles it seems far-fetched to think they can stay afloat for long if Edmonton jumps out and grabs the series by the throat.
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Post by jkr on May 2, 2022 5:46:27 GMT -5
Agree. My only concern is Petry will mope about all next year and eventually force a trade. I don't want Klingberg as he seems like a problem, and while he has some offensive skill he makes a lot of bonehead plays - a lot like Petry. My wish is Pens get blown out by Rags in the first series and Pens start the rebuild which will not include Letang and Kris comes home. He's got a few good years left in him. The guy can QB a PP, something we've needed for a while. I hope we don’t spend 7M+ on a 35 yr old defenseman. Yikes! Same here. I don't want another local guy who decides to finish out his career in Montreal. |
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 2, 2022 6:16:47 GMT -5
As much as I like the new management and their approach…. This is a really bad team. It was trending down for several years and the Cup run ultimately did nothing to slow it down.
Suzuki. Caufield and I agree with BC about Petry. I hate to sell low on guys. You can’t get rid of everyone but this team is just chock full with 3rd liners and depth D men on bad contracts.
I honestly don’t know what to tell them other than just about everyone is a potential trade target.
Add to that the Price and Weber situations…
This is going to be really hard. Bergevin inherited a much better situation than he left for Gorton/Hughes.
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Post by franko on May 2, 2022 6:18:39 GMT -5
I don't want another local guy who decides to finish out his career in Montreal. And in Senator-land they're clamouring for Giroux. |
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Post by Skilly on May 2, 2022 9:54:41 GMT -5
I think letting Petry go would be as bad a move as letting Danault go was. Especially if the rumours are true that WE will have to sweeten the deal to get somebody to take him because of his salary. Like it or not, we need Petry to be our #1 defenseman, and right now there is nobody who is remotely close to being able to fill that position. We ain't getting one back in any hypothetical Petry trade and I'm highly skeptical of us being able to sign one as a free agent (and there are only two who would really qualify anyways, Letang and Klingberg). I'm not even considering trading him unless the deal is outrageously in our favor. I'm going back to engineering to study "do more with nothing". I'm afraid I may not find those courses. We have two top 4 of which one is still young and establishing himself. The rest are a slew of players who scratch on getting into top 6. Get rid of Petry and we have the worse defense in the NHL. The upside is that if this continues, we will test the super duper "build better through destruction" theory. Buffalo says hello. No one is asking them to do more with nothing ... we are asking the designers to stop using factor of safety of 2.5 though I guess where my development philosophy is different than a lot of posters on here is that I believe development occurs quicker at the NHL level. In my opinion, moving an older player, to slot in his replacement is not doing nothing, it's not building through destruction, it's player development. But you need a coach that's going to let players learn from their mistakes. When you draft a top three player and publicly state he is your top line player of the future, but play him behind Desharnais, or Danault for 2-3 seasons. He will never develop the way you want. And punishing every mistake and having that safety factor to just slot in the guy you used previously, isn't going to develop the kid either. So if MSL or Hughes thinks that Romanov will be a PP QB, then use him. Develop him. I don't see the purpose of drafting all these hyped up defense prospects and only graduating one of them to the big club each year on the bottom six. Mathematically, you are saying you'll never develop half of them. They'll be in their late 20s unless multiple guys make the team together. Develop them. It will be interesting to see what Montreal does with the #1 selection. But I hope we don't go back to the 90s and early 2000s where our picks HAD to pay dues in the minors. If they show in training camp they are good enough, then develop them for the role you want in the NHL. |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on May 2, 2022 11:49:31 GMT -5
Dvorak should stay. A much needed centre, that would leave a big void until a new young thing is drafted and developed. Here is some stats to back up how much better he was later in the season after a horrendous start to the season.
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Post by Tankdriver on May 2, 2022 17:01:03 GMT -5
I think you have to look at is as can the Canadiens replace anyone in the top 8 and make the playoffs? My magic 8 ball says highly unlikely. I think the Islanders have a good chance of replacing anyone who falls from the top 8. So that answer leads me to: it is time to tear down, draft and develop young guys and make a push in year 3. So if that means playing 4 rookie d, Poehling, RHP, Jonathan Roy, Ylonen, and pick #1, then so be it. It will be like watching the Jay's in 2019-20 and waiting for the future to arrive.
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Post by folatre on May 2, 2022 17:08:05 GMT -5
I agree. Montreal is not blessed with great centre depth, so Dvorak needs to be on the roster. The movement needs to occur on the wing. There is a glut of wingers who are neither suited to a first line or fourth line role. So I think management would like to subtract at least one guy even if the club was not facing a severe cap crunch.
For me there are six wingers (Caufield, Anderson, Gallagher, Rem Pitlick, Drouin, Hoffman) who cannot play on the fourth line. And Hughes has the additional aggravation that while Armia and Byron have obviously played 4th line roles in the past, it is kind of crazy to have guys carrying $3.5 million AAVs down there.
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Post by Boston_Habs on May 2, 2022 18:34:20 GMT -5
It starts, as always, with the top 11. Top 6 forwards, top 4 D, goalie.
If you go by ice time following the trade deadline
F: Suzuki, Dvorak, Anderson, Hoffman, Caufield, Gallagher (when healthy)
D: Petry, Romanov, Edmundson, Savard, Wideman, Harris
G: ?
I mean.... yikes. The gap in production and talent that needs to be filled in the next 2-3 years is massive. Right now you could say we have two potential All Stars in the top 6 and zero on the back end. If Nick Suzuki becomes an 80-point guy next year (33% increase) that would put him among the top 40 producers in the league. I suppose that might be good enough for your best player if there is a ton of depth behind him, but it would be nice if his ceiling was higher than that. Seems like his best comp is Sebastian Aho. Cole Caufield? His bar is 40 goals. There were 17 players who scored 40 goals this year and he needs to be one of them. The D has good prospects but that's about it. No difference makers yet.
The league is about offense now. I remember writing a post a few years ago asking how/where we were going to find 240 goals a year or roughly 3 goals per game? Well this year the top 8 teams in the East scored an average of 284 goals or 3.5 goals per game. While Bergevin was building a defense first team that "hates to lose" the rest of the league lapped us. This is also the first year in NHL history where the 8 playoff teams in the East all had at least 100 points.
Gorton/Hughes have a lot of work to do. Good news is expectations are low and given how the conference is looking it's a good time to suck for a few years.
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Post by habsorbed on May 3, 2022 0:13:47 GMT -5
I thought the goal was to tank this year AND next year. Danault hindered development of two top three picks. Sure he did well in LA, but that doesn’t mean he would have done that in Montreal. No Danault has gotten us top odds on Wright. Danault was going to have to accept a third line role eventually. Danault is a good player. But letting him go wasn’t a mistake, he isn’t a make it or break it player. And we won’t be in the playoffs (where Danault is dominate) for 2-3 years Agree. Very interesting to see how Danny does against the Oil top centres. If Kings win it will be because of Danny's defensive shut down skills - and perhaps stellar goaltending. Sounds familiar. Danny with a goal (including the winner) and an assist, and a +3. Quick standing on his head. |
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Post by Willie Dog on May 3, 2022 16:52:22 GMT -5
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Post by franko on May 3, 2022 17:41:52 GMT -5
how do those 2 players that didn't play count toward the cap? I don't get it -- I thought that there was cap relief, |
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Post by seventeen on May 3, 2022 17:52:15 GMT -5
I thought the goal was to tank this year AND next year. Danault hindered development of two top three picks. Sure he did well in LA, but that doesn’t mean he would have done that in Montreal. No Danault has gotten us top odds on Wright. Danault was going to have to accept a third line role eventually. Danault is a good player. But letting him go wasn’t a mistake, he isn’t a make it or break it player. And we won’t be in the playoffs (where Danault is dominate) for 2-3 years Agree. Very interesting to see how Danny does against the Oil top centres. If Kings win it will be because of Danny's defensive shut down skills - and perhaps stellar goaltending. Sounds familiar. Phil had an excellent game against Edmonton, but the story line might have been different if Smith doesn’t look like a guy holding a grenade that’s had the pin pulled. Holland was a mistake. It was a p.r. move. Experienced GM, blah, blah. But a guy who had accomplished nothing since Datsyuk and Lidstrom, super security blankets, left. Letting Markstrom go to Calgary because of an extra year was a mistake. Outside of what he inherited, what has he improved? Kulak? |
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Post by seventeen on May 3, 2022 18:16:29 GMT -5
My philosophy is to eat the frog as the saying goes. Do the toughest job first and then each following problem gets easier and easier. We need 2 top centres, an elite defenseman and (hopefully) a Markov level guy as the #2. Add a capable goalie and fill in the blanks.
So what’s the plan to achieve the above? I think (and fans will hate this) you have to lose for a while yet. If this year we get Wright or Cooley, you solve the first issue. If we get to draft Michkov or Bedard next year you can use that asset to re-arrange the roster to maybe get that stud d-man. Goal? Wiping out the Carey contract is key, though that one may have to wait another 4 years. In Goal in the background are Primeau, Vrbetic, Dichow and Dobes. One hopes one of those 4 makes it.
So, sorry guys but losing and drafting well remains the formula. Fill with trades and FA’s and bake well.
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Post by Cranky on May 3, 2022 18:32:56 GMT -5
I hear you, Cranky. The Habs blueliners are bad but Petry, while good, is not good enough to alter anything in the standings (last is last) or on the power play (nearly last for the entirety of his tenure in Montreal). So if the guy really prefers to leave town, the downside of trading him is mitigated by the fact that Montreal has a down and out roster. The issue is that by getting rid of Petry, managemants literally creates a defense that says "kick me in the nuts" every single game. Would you want to play on a team that wants to deliberate lose every game? Would you sign on a team like that? Or do we get the bottom of the barrel in FA looking for a retirement contract? Then there is the issue of a team culture baked in "I don't give a $***". Why is Buffalo still Buffalo after a pile of top drafts? Maybe I'm old fashioned and doesn't believe that you build a winning team by swimming in mud. |
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Post by folatre on May 3, 2022 22:27:45 GMT -5
Petry was not a happy camper this season. He is an American who has never had the opportunity to play for a US based club, so maybe at age 34 with a young family that has become his overriding priority. My point is simply that Petry will not add positively to the culture or the group if he prefers to be elsewhere.
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Post by Willie Dog on May 4, 2022 8:59:57 GMT -5
Petry was not a happy camper this season. He is an American who has never had the opportunity to play for a US based club, so maybe at age 34 with a young family that has become his overriding priority. My point is simply that Petry will not add positively to the culture or the group if he prefers to be elsewhere. or as we've seen this season, an unhappy wife/kids |
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Post by folatre on Jul 10, 2022 9:32:44 GMT -5
I know the outcome of the Petry issue remains indeterminate. However, for me the bigger story of the roster over the summer is the ludicrous number of wingers (more than a dozen) vying for a roster spot when, in reality, only eight or nine jobs are available.
The list is long: Caufield, Slafkovsky, Anderson, Drouin, Hoffman, Gallagher, Byron, Armia, Dadanov, Pitlick, Pezzetta, Ylonen, Dauphin, Harvey-Pinard.
Sure, a couple of kids could be sent to Laval and management could cross their fingers and hope a couple others would clear waivers and subsequently help the Rocket. But be that as it may, Gorton and Hughes would still need to cull the herd one way or another. In an environment where players with bad contracts essentially have negative value and cap space around the league is extremely scarce, management is no doubt finding the task at hand to be an exceedingly difficult one.
Well, boys, any ideas?
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Post by Skilly on Jul 10, 2022 10:57:47 GMT -5
Our third line over the past few seasons has quickly gone from being a strength, to a glaring weakness.
Looking at our wingers for the third line, it will be some combination of the defensive stallworths of Hoffman, Gallagher and Dadonov
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 10, 2022 11:44:01 GMT -5
Going by the habs website www.nhl.com/canadiens/rosterWingers Caufield Slafkovsky send to laval or finland Anderson Drouin Gallagher Byron Armia Dadanov Pezzetta - send to laval Ylonen - send to laval Harvey-Pinard - send to laval Centres - a real mess here suze dach evans poeling dvorak R pitlick -rfa - waive T pitlick - let walk perrault - let walk dauphin - let walk hoffman - winger |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 10, 2022 11:47:41 GMT -5
Rather than start a separate RFA/UFA thread, we are on the cusp of decisions on both RFAs (qualifying offers due tomorrow) and UFAs (starts Wednesday).
Here are the RFAs that need a QO by tomorrow or will be UFAs on Wednesday:
Kirby Dach
Rem Pitlick
Cayden Primeau
Kale Clague
Sam Montembeault
Michael Pezzetta
Josh Brook
Nate Schnarr
Joël Teasdale
Louie Belpedio
Corey Schueneman
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Jul 10, 2022 11:54:33 GMT -5
The pending UFA list is definitely not much to look at, but they do need to fill out a roster in Laval too. All these ten guys are poised to turn free agents on Wednesday.
Alex Belzile
Laurent Dauphin
JS Dea
William Lagesson
Sami Niku
Xavier Ouellet
Cedric Paquette
Mathieu Perreault
Tyler Pitlick
Lukas Vejdemo
They resigned Wideman for two years, so he is the only one sorted out as of now. None of these guys will do anything in the way of cap relief, but I expect they try to keep a few for Laval.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 10, 2022 12:31:58 GMT -5
Rather than start a separate RFA/UFA thread, we are on the cusp of decisions on both RFAs (qualifying offers due tomorrow) and UFAs (starts Wednesday). Here are the RFAs that need a QO by tomorrow or will be UFAs on Wednesday: Kirby Dach - keep Rem Pitlick Cayden Primeau - keep Kale Clague Sam Montembeault - keep Michael Pezzetta - keep Josh Brook - keep Nate Schnarr Joël Teasdale Louie Belpedio Corey Schueneman - keep My choices |
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