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Post by habsorbed on Feb 5, 2022 22:15:50 GMT -5
I'd do this by way of a poll but that wouldn't work.
Rules:
1) Posters should identify in order three players they believe should stay and three that should go. We can see what sort of consensus develops.
Rules as determined by the Thread Creator:
1) No player earning less than $3.5 million is eligible as they are easily buried if need be and won't affect the cap too much.
2) Chariot is not part of the discussions as his days with Habs are numbered.
2) Conversely, I think it's safe to say Price and Suze are untouchable right now so don't waste picks;
As we can not know or predict what will be the return for a player, the assumption is Hughes will get a decent return. So the real question is what three players do you see helping this team going forward and which three should not be a part of our future, whether due to talent, attitude, or cap hit.
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Post by habsorbed on Feb 5, 2022 22:19:27 GMT -5
Keepers:
1) Toffee: proven winner, have him at a good price, and he can score and play D.
2) Emundson: great price, great age, will be our rock on D while Romy develops and we get some offensive D.
3) Anderson: have always been hoping for more from the guy, but given his age and his size, I think he brings something that is very difficult to find so prepared to keep him at $5.5.
See ya:
1) Drouin: never thought much of him and way overpaid for what he brings. Hadn't done anything before he became a Hab and hasn't done anything since he arrived. Don't think he will help the youngins as I don't want them learning how to avoid the corners, or any contact. I'd be happy with no return, just the salary dump would be a win.
2) Gally: hate to pick him as he's been a trooper but getting way too much at $6.5 with his best years behind him, and for another 5 years. Might be worth keeping so the kids could learn how to compete but in two years he will be hard to unload.
3) Savard: What was MB thinking signing this pylon for $3.5 for 4 years. Trade him now to some contender who's looking for a 6th dman for their cup run. I almost picked Petry here but I'm hoping this is an off season, and we will need his skating for the next few years - altho I don't know if he wants to be here another year.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 6, 2022 9:50:53 GMT -5
Keepers: 1) Toffee: proven winner, have him at a good price, and he can score and play D. 2) Emundson: great price, great age, will be our rock on D while Romy develops and we get some offensive D. 3) Anderson: have always been hoping for more from the guy, but given his age and his size, I think he brings something that is very difficult to find so prepared to keep him at $5.5. See ya: 1) Drouin: never thought much of him and way overpaid for what he brings. Hadn't done anything before he became a Hab and hasn't done anything since he arrived. Don't think he will help the youngins as I don't want them learning how to avoid the corners, or any contact. I'd be happy with no return, just the salary dump would be a win. 2) Gally: hate to pick him as he's been a trooper but getting way too much at $6.5 with his best years behind him, and for another 5 years. Might be worth keeping so the kids could learn how to compete but in two years he will be hard to unload. 3) Savard: What was MB thinking signing this pylon for $3.5 for 4 years. Trade him now to some contender who's looking for a 6th dman for their cup run. I almost picked Petry here but I'm hoping this is an off season, and we will need his skating for the next few years - altho I don't know if he wants to be here another year. I agree with this, I could substitute Hoffman for Savard... I think Savard needs to be with someone other than Chiarot, Savard is not a top pairing d man but hes forced into it because hes paired with Chiarot... but I agree 3.5 for 4 years was a screw job from burgerbrain |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 6, 2022 12:46:12 GMT -5
... that's a good list, HS ... I'll throw my hat into the ring ... | Keepers |
| Traders |
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| Josh Anderson
We've probably seen the max
Anderson can give, but he was
also one of the few players who gave
a hoot this year.
| | Jeff Petry
Petry's family is already in Michigan, and
as some have noted, he's playing as if he
wants out. He's a lot better than he's
shown this year, and teams know that.
I think it's only a matter of time before
he does move, and while I don't want to
see him move, he should fetch a
handsome return.
| Tyler Toffoli
He could have made more money
had he been playing somewhere
else. A good player on a good
Contract
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| Mike Hoffman
His contract and skill sets make him a
very marketable asset. If he is to move,
he'll be a valuable player to a team
making a run for the Cup.
| Brendan Gallagher
I'd ask Brendan what he'd like to do if
the team is going through a rebuild, and
if he wants to stay, then pin the "C" on him.
If he doesn't, send him to a contender.
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| Paul Byron
At $3.4 million/season, he's only $100K
under the minimum for this survey, so I
picked him. A speedy depth winger who
who kills penalties.
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... note, that if Gallagher wants to leave, you have to honour that, too ...
... if Byron doesn't belong on the list, then I'd look at moving David Savard ...
Cheers. |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 6, 2022 15:32:14 GMT -5
Love this idea, Dis! Did you really have to limit the bye-byes to 3?
Keepers:
Toffoli. - clearly an easy choice with most. He can score and you need scorers and he's a solid all-around guy. Easy decision, IMO (though he would attract a good return, but you have to keep some role models for the kids)
Then there's.....hmmm......long pause:
Christian Dvorak. Poor guy. For me he joins the Weber club...a decent player who was acquired by the General Monster of the Habs by trading or having to replace a player I liked a lot. Dvorak is better than he has shown (who isn't in this hellhole of a season?) and he would be an excellent #3 centre. Hughes just has to find a solid #2C and all works out. Fortunately, Carolina is having a hell of a good season and we are definitely finishing bottom 10, so Arizona is going to end up with a pick from 25 to 32, not the best place to be drafting, though Bill Armstrong manages to find a lot of good players. Anyway, he plays a tough position, so he too is a keeper.
Joel Edmundson - Again, I think he played over his head last year, so I don't consider him a rock solid top 4 guy, but he can play #4 and he won't hurt you. We need some vets and a couple of stay at home defensemen (I'm planning big changes there), so he's the third guy.
What's crazy is that there aren't a lot of guys to choose from after the first two, IMO. If someone offered me a late first rounder for Edmundson, I'd consider it. NWT tells me that while this upcoming draft doesn't have franchise type talent at the top, it's actually fairly deep in good prospects.
Ok, onto the good stuff:
Booters
Jeff Petry - has shown his true colours. While one doesn't expect a great effort during this type of season, one should at least care a little bit and he doesn't give a S_ _ _. Nothing more to be said except that getting rid of that contract would be lovely.
Josh Anderson - Yeah, I know he's a whipping boy of mine and is favoured more kindly by others on this board, but paying a 28 year old forward $5.5MM for the next 5 years while he produces 35-40 points a year is money down the drain. Besides, the combination of size, speed and flowing locks is sure to entice some other GM into giving up a first rounder, say in 2023. Hopefully they will think the lack of production is completely due to the Habs coaching etc.
Brendan Gallagher. I love Gally's compete level and when healthy, he is a dangerous scorer with a wicked shot. He leads by example. So why is he listed here? His style of play encourages injury. He should not be blocking shots the way he does. He makes $6.5MM and will do so for the next 5 years after this one. You could usually count on him to put up .65 ppg or around 55 points per year in a full season, of which he's had 5 in a 10 year career. That seems to be changing. He'll be 30 at the start of next season and 35 at the end of his contract. I don't think he'll age well and he should get a stellar return for us from any SC contender needing that last piece. He only had 6 points in 22 playoff games last year, but was playing hurt throughout. Twenty-five in 49 games before that. Yeah, he'd get us a first rounder and a good prospect, especially if we retain, say $2-$3MM.
Honourable Mentions. This list could be a lot longer if Dis allowed it.
David Savard - Nuff said
Mike Hoffman - His dictionary is missing the word 'Defence', but he only has 2 more years left. If someone offered something though, bye-bye.
Joel Armia - 3 more years at $3.5MM? Really? What was Berg thinking? That was just a rhetorical question folks. It's more obvious than ever that Bargain Bin didn't put a lot of thought into anything, except those weights in the gym.
I've left Drouin off because while I don't think he's essential to the turnaround, he has actually shown more character and skill this year than most guys. If someone blew my socks off with an offer, sure, he's gone, but that's not going to happen and we still need skill on this team.
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Post by Cranky on Feb 6, 2022 19:06:03 GMT -5
All these fantasies about trading productive people and drafting future maybes is a quarantee for half decade of misery with no guarantee of any contention.
If they trade everyone left, right and center, they are worthless, but I doubt it. Anyone who dreams that they are is in for grave disappointment. Goes to the very core of Asset Management 101.
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Post by Andrew on Feb 7, 2022 12:47:05 GMT -5
All these fantasies about trading productive people and drafting future maybes is a quarantee for half decade of misery with no guarantee of any contention. If they trade everyone left, right and center, they are worthless, but I doubt it. Anyone who dreams that they are is in for grave disappointment. Goes to the very core of Asset Management 101. I don't think that's the plan. Hughes was on record saying that his plan is to have the team be competitive soon, and that an Arizona style teardown is not in the cards. They'll make trades where it makes sense, and target assets that can help sooner rather than later. I.E. in the Athletic article by Basu and Dumont, they'd quoted him as saying: “I would think all things being equal, if we could have the 13th overall pick in this year’s draft, or the 13th overall pick from last year’s, or two years ago, we’ll take the guy (from) two years ago, he’s closer to being ready,”theathletic.com/3106665/2022/02/02/the-canadiens-path-forward-new-gm-kent-hughes-outlines-how-the-next-eight-months-could-go/ (Paywall) |
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Post by Cranky on Feb 7, 2022 16:41:10 GMT -5
All these fantasies about trading productive people and drafting future maybes is a quarantee for half decade of misery with no guarantee of any contention. If they trade everyone left, right and center, they are worthless, but I doubt it. Anyone who dreams that they are is in for grave disappointment. Goes to the very core of Asset Management 101. I don't think that's the plan. Hughes was on record saying that his plan is to have the team be competitive soon, and that an Arizona style teardown is not in the cards. They'll make trades where it makes sense, and target assets that can help sooner rather than later. I.E. in the Athletic article by Basu and Dumont, they'd quoted him as saying: “I would think all things being equal, if we could have the 13th overall pick in this year’s draft, or the 13th overall pick from last year’s, or two years ago, we’ll take the guy (from) two years ago, he’s closer to being ready,”theathletic.com/3106665/2022/02/02/the-canadiens-path-forward-new-gm-kent-hughes-outlines-how-the-next-eight-months-could-go/ (Paywall) Sooo...there is something in that quote that makes me think they may trade their 1st for....someone like Laffy. Which of course would make sense for ex-Ranger GM. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 8, 2022 23:55:50 GMT -5
This list could be a lot longer if Dis allowed it. It's not my thread, dude ... check out Habsorbed's initial post ... any player making under $3.5 million is off the list ... I was trying to honour that, but for a $100,000 difference, I put Paul Byron on my list ... When he's on his game, Armia, is one of my favourite Habs; however, like many of his teammates, he hasn't been on his game for most of the season ... I know Carey Price and Shea Weber are out, fine, but the team needs new leadership on the ice ... the team needs a heart transplant, and that will require changes ... perhaps approach Weber and ask him if he'd consider relinquishing the captaincy and, if he's to stay, give it to Brendan Gallagher ... Cheers. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 9, 2022 11:10:50 GMT -5
No one is a keeper.
Not one single player has performed to the level where we should think he is a must going forward.
In fact, I’d do my best to trade Suzuki and that $7.875 million anchor
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Post by halihab on Feb 9, 2022 12:49:51 GMT -5
No one is a keeper. Not one single player has performed to the level where we should think he is a must going forward. In fact, I’d do my best to trade Suzuki and that $7.875 million anchor I disagree, Suzuki is the number one player I would keep on my list, along with Lekky and Anderson. Those are the only three I would keep. I may also consider keeping Jake Allen. Romy is on the cusp. still males bonehead plays in our end. |
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Feb 9, 2022 14:08:56 GMT -5
With Petry and Chariot as good as gone already the three to be going are Armia, Hoffman and Drouin. None of them will do anything significantly in the next two years to raise their trade value or be leaders to the younger players coming in, but will given top minutes. There are two guys at 3.4 million that are honorable mentions.
Anderson, Caulfield, and Romanov are keepers. Caulfield and Romanov are young and will be continue to develop in a better system. Anderson has everything you want in a power forward and he cares. Give him an "A" and a defenseman that can get him the puck 2-3 times a game.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 9, 2022 14:23:06 GMT -5
If you want bGal gone, bring back PK..
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Post by seventeen on Feb 9, 2022 16:03:22 GMT -5
This list could be a lot longer if Dis allowed it. It's not my thread, dude ... check out Habsorbed's initial post Sure, but who's the enforcer huh? Habsorbed is the velvet glove but you're the iron fist. I know who to kowtow to.  |
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Post by seventeen on Feb 9, 2022 16:05:01 GMT -5
If you want bGal gone, bring back PK.. Better yet, have both on the team, just to provide material for the journalists. |
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Post by Skilly on Feb 9, 2022 17:45:37 GMT -5
No one is a keeper. Not one single player has performed to the level where we should think he is a must going forward. In fact, I’d do my best to trade Suzuki and that $7.875 million anchor I'm not buying into the hype. He is not a first liner, and doesn't make others around him better. He is on pace for under 50 points again. We gave $7.875 million to a guy who has never shown he can be a point a gamer; heck get us 60-70 points! |
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Post by HFTO on Feb 9, 2022 20:13:59 GMT -5
From the F I keep Toffoli Anderson Lekky …can you afford to keep Gally?….Suzi Cole Poehling I assume are locks ….Allen is still a good back up if Price is back or if Price is gone in a tandem with another 1B…Primeau needs lots of work …Monty see ya
On D Romy …keep Charot Edmondson fill in the blanks
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Feb 10, 2022 7:42:39 GMT -5
I would be perfectly happy if they traded Chiarot at the deadline for picks or prospects and then brought him back as a UFA in the summer. He is much better than some give him credit for.
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Post by Habit on Feb 10, 2022 8:28:54 GMT -5
From what I read "Between the Lines" from management, is that they are more interested in former 1st round picks that are close to being a product on the ice, then waiting 3-4 years for them to develop. That would mean that Charot and Company might be shopped for players that might play sooner than later.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see out 1st this year, in a weak draft, being flipped to NYR for Alex as they are loaded on the left side.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 30, 2022 11:00:22 GMT -5
... didn't want to open another thread for this one ...
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 30, 2022 12:36:43 GMT -5
... didn't want to open another thread for this one ...
Wow, that explains Petry's improved play. |
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Post by PTH on Apr 30, 2022 13:08:32 GMT -5
... didn't want to open another thread for this one ...
...
Wow, that explains Petry's improved play. Well, the fact he was getting moved soon is pretty much old news, though. The fact it's likely to be a move for another D, or a couple of moves to replace him with another D, is new information. I think this explains Hughes' quote at the deadline, about moving Petry with a draft pick: it just meant he can get a younger, similar caliber player only through adding a draft pick. |
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Post by PTH on Apr 30, 2022 14:56:33 GMT -5
I was thinking about making a thread like this one, anyways....
Who stays and who goes ? I'd categorize the players in 4 categories.
1) Useful players who should be back unless traded for something of greater value to us.
Suzuki, Caufield, Anderson, Evans, Poehling, Dvorak, Edmundson, Romanov, Savard, Allen, Rem Pitlick, Petry.
Petry has to be seen as likely to be moved, but it would likely be for a similar D, so roster impact would be limited.
2) Troublesome contracts who might be moved for other troublesome contracts, but are likely back whether we like it or not.
Hoffman, Drouin, Gallagher, Byron, Armia, Price.
Price is going to be a massive question mark for a while, IMO. And the tough thing with goalies is you can't just bury one on the 4th line and hope they don't hurt you too much (as I expect we'll end up doing with Gallagher)
3) Probably the category with the most movement - guys you have to wonder about, generally have low value and are possibly unsigned: Wideman, Dauphin, Perreault, Clague, Montembeault, Lagesson, T. Pitlick
4) Kids: Barron, Ylonen, Harris, Pezzetta, Harvey-Pinard, Primeau
The real question here is whether they end up returning to the AHL or if they stick. Even a guy like Harris, who impressed, might still show up at camp and just not play well. We can't assume anything.
So, who stays and who leaves ?
T. Pitlick and Dauphin are the only 2 guys in cat 3 I'd actively want back. The others I'm very "meh" about. Montembeault might well come back as a 3d goalie we expect to lose to waivers if Price is healthy after 10 starts or so. I could see Clague and Lagesson signing here for depth purposes we can't ice 4 rookies all season long.
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Post by jkr on Apr 30, 2022 17:10:48 GMT -5
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Post by Willie Dog on Apr 30, 2022 23:04:16 GMT -5
I saw the Price press conference and he says he can no longer do 55/60 games a season, he has swelling in his knee and he hasnt thought of other teams, hes always been a Hab... I think he will just retire if his knee doesnt get better |
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Post by PTH on Apr 30, 2022 23:13:26 GMT -5
I saw the Price press conference and he says he can no longer do 55/60 games a season, he has swelling in his knee and he hasnt thought of other teams, hes always been a Hab... I think he will just retire if his knee doesnt get better The worst possible outcome might well be if he sticks around but only as a 40-game goalie. Massive cap hit, but requires a platooning goalie, impossible to expect starter-level performances in the playoffs.... and requires the organisation to have a decent #3 option if he (or his platooning partner) get hurt. |
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Post by Skilly on May 1, 2022 8:43:25 GMT -5
I saw the Price press conference and he says he can no longer do 55/60 games a season, he has swelling in his knee and he hasnt thought of other teams, hes always been a Hab... I think he will just retire if his knee doesnt get better The worst possible outcome might well be if he sticks around but only as a 40-game goalie. Massive cap hit, but requires a platooning goalie, impossible to expect starter-level performances in the playoffs.... and requires the organisation to have a decent #3 option if he (or his platooning partner) get hurt. I don't think it's a might be ... I think we are there now, and have been there for quite some time. The Habs management hung onto Price longer than they should have. I disagreed with keeping him over Halak because I thought they could trade Price into that top liner we needed. The counter arguement being Price didn't have high value back then. That was fair, and once the decision was made, we all became team Price. But signing him to 10.5 million per year, should never have occurred. That's when he should have been traded for a haul. His play (or should we say non-play) since that signing has been unworthy of the contract. He is the reason we got Jake Allen, because a plug for 15 games was no longer good. We needed a guy for 30 games AND win 20 of them.... |
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Post by PTH on May 1, 2022 11:08:01 GMT -5
The worst possible outcome might well be if he sticks around but only as a 40-game goalie. Massive cap hit, but requires a platooning goalie, impossible to expect starter-level performances in the playoffs.... and requires the organisation to have a decent #3 option if he (or his platooning partner) get hurt. I don't think it's a might be ... I think we are there now, and have been there for quite some time. The Habs management hung onto Price longer than they should have. I disagreed with keeping him over Halak because I thought they could trade Price into that top liner we needed. The counter arguement being Price didn't have high value back then. That was fair, and once the decision was made, we all became team Price. But signing him to 10.5 million per year, should never have occurred. That's when he should have been traded for a haul. His play (or should we say non-play) since that signing has been unworthy of the contract. He is the reason we got Jake Allen, because a plug for 15 games was no longer good. We needed a guy for 30 games AND win 20 of them.... Yeah, I know. And I agree about Price's 84M contract. Probably Berg's worst move, it's almost as if he took Price's agent's ask and accepted it as such. Largest goalie salary ever, for max length, filled with signing bonuses. At the time I said Price would regret that contract before halfway, much like Luongo seemed to hate his own, simply because it constrains their careers and makes them untradable. Price at 3.5M-5M would be a gamble tons of teams would be willing to take, or he'd be the perfect platooning guy and you hope he gets red hot for the playoffs. Right now, he's just too big a risk, even if he asked for a trade, he'd be very, very hard to move. |
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Post by BadCompany on May 1, 2022 11:57:17 GMT -5
I think letting Petry go would be as bad a move as letting Danault go was.
Especially if the rumours are true that WE will have to sweeten the deal to get somebody to take him because of his salary. Like it or not, we need Petry to be our #1 defenseman, and right now there is nobody who is remotely close to being able to fill that position. We ain't getting one back in any hypothetical Petry trade and I'm highly skeptical of us being able to sign one as a free agent (and there are only two who would really qualify anyways, Letang and Klingberg).
I'm not even considering trading him unless the deal is outrageously in our favor.
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Post by habsorbed on May 1, 2022 13:33:48 GMT -5
I think letting Petry go would be as bad a move as letting Danault go was. Especially if the rumours are true that WE will have to sweeten the deal to get somebody to take him because of his salary. Like it or not, we need Petry to be our #1 defenseman, and right now there is nobody who is remotely close to being able to fill that position. We ain't getting one back in any hypothetical Petry trade and I'm highly skeptical of us being able to sign one as a free agent (and there are only two who would really qualify anyways, Letang and Klingberg). I'm not even considering trading him unless the deal is outrageously in our favor. Agree. My only concern is Petry will mope about all next year and eventually force a trade. I don't want Klingberg as he seems like a problem, and while he has some offensive skill he makes a lot of bonehead plays - a lot like Petry. My wish is Pens get blown out by Rags in the first series and Pens start the rebuild which will not include Letang and Kris comes home. He's got a few good years left in him. The guy can QB a PP, something we've needed for a while. |
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